Consciousness, Stories & Psychedelics | Tor Nørretranders | EP 441

Added: Apr 19, 2024

Consciousness and Perception

Nørretranders highlights the discrepancy between the vast amount of sensory information we receive and the limited amount we are consciously aware of. He explains that consciousness is about sharing awareness with others, pointing to the social nature of our perception. He emphasizes the role of language in shaping our conscious experience, as it allows us to communicate and calibrate our perceptions with others.

Storytelling and Perception

Peterson introduces the idea of storytelling as a way to understand consciousness. He discusses how stories shape our perception of the world and serve as pointers to value. He draws on J.J. Gibson's ecological approach to visual perception, where specifying a point with an aim leads to the emergence of perceptible objects, tools, obstacles, friends, and foes. Peterson suggests that stories encapsulate the fruits of our imagination and serve as a storehouse of value that we can trade with others.

Emotion and Entropy

The conversation shifts to the concept of entropy and its relationship to emotion. Peterson mentions his work on anxiety as an index of entropy and how obstacles can increase entropy, leading to negative emotions. He explains how motivation systems set goals and how emotions calibrate in relation to those goals. Nørretranders agrees, noting that emotions are about testing predictions and that our perception is inherently emotional, with quick emotional responses shaping our interactions with the world.

Prediction and Desire

The discussion touches on the idea of prediction and desire in shaping our perceptions. Nørretranders suggests that emotions are intertwined with our predictions and that our perception is essentially a hallucination based on the information we receive. He gives examples of how our perception can be influenced by lack of sensory information, leading to hallucinations and anxiety.

Pointing and Symmetry Breaking

Peterson brings up the concept of pointing as a way to specify a destination and how it relates to symmetry breaking in perception. He discusses how the introduction of asymmetry can lead to reorganization and transformation, similar to how pointing can guide our attention and perception. Nørretranders shares an example of how symmetry breaking in nature can lead to new forms and structures, highlighting the role of perception in shaping our reality.

Anxiety and Pointlessness

The conversation delves into the relationship between anxiety and pointlessness. Nørretranders mentions the phenomenon of "kayak anxiety" among Greenlandic people, where the lack of orientation in a vast blue ocean can trigger anxiety and hallucinations. Peterson adds that pointlessness can be chaotic and anxiety-provoking, emphasizing the importance of having a clear point or goal to constrain existential terror and elicit hope.

Perception and Consciousness

Nørretranders talks about the concept of perception and how our brains process information. He mentions that our brains receive 11 million bits of information per second but can only process about 16 bits consciously. This limited processing capacity leads to a narrowed consciousness, where we focus on specific details while ignoring the vast amount of information available to us.

Psychedelics and Perception

The conversation shifts to the topic of psychedelics and their impact on perception. Nørretranders and Peterson discuss how psychedelics can expand consciousness and increase emotional intensity by allowing individuals to experience a broader sensory realm. They suggest that psychedelics may help individuals break free from the constraints of a narrowed consciousness and reorient themselves towards a more expansive view of the world.

Agriculture and Wild Food

Nørretranders shares his interest in nutrition and the way food is produced, particularly focusing on the shift from wild food to cultivated crops. He highlights the importance of reconnecting with nature and exploring the richness of wild foods that have been overlooked in modern agriculture. He discusses the trend in fine dining to use wild, locally sourced ingredients to create more diverse and flavorful dishes.

Balance Between Order and Chaos

The conversation delves into the balance between order and chaos in various aspects of life, including relationships and creativity. Nørretranders and Peterson discuss how hyper-focused efficiency can lead to a loss of richness and diversity, both in agriculture and in personal relationships. They emphasize the importance of maintaining a dynamic balance between order and chaos to foster creativity, growth, and meaningful connections.

Relationships and Meaning

Nørretranders and Peterson explore the idea of meaningful relationships and the role of perception in shaping our interactions with others. They discuss how individuals can fall into the trap of reducing their partners to a narrow set of expectations, leading to boredom and dissatisfaction. They emphasize the importance of seeing the depth and richness in others, allowing for a more fulfilling and dynamic relationship.

Transformation and Gratitude

Peterson shares a personal anecdote about his wife's near-death experience and the profound impact it had on their relationship. He describes how his wife's brush with mortality led to a transformation where she shed self-imposed constraints and became more open and childlike. This experience taught Peterson the importance of embracing change, gratitude, and the imaginative plurality that comes with seeing others in their full complexity.

Relationships and Love

Nørretranders believes that everything in the world is relational, and he sees evil as closing off barriers to others while love is about total openness and exchange with another person. He emphasizes the importance of seeing individuals as multifaceted beings rather than reducing them to one aspect. He also discusses the concept of play as a way to explore the richness of others and maintain a balance between predictability and unpredictability in relationships.

Consciousness and Quantum Physics

Nørretranders delves into the idea of consciousness as a collective experience shaped by interactions with others. He draws parallels between quantum physics, where all outcomes are relational, and human relationships. He suggests that unperformed experiments have no outcomes, highlighting the importance of interaction in shaping reality.

Reductionism and Narrowing

The conversation touches on the dangers of reductionism and narrowing in human interactions. Nørretranders warns against replacing the complexity of reality with our own preconceived notions and emphasizes the need to listen and interact with others authentically. He shares an anecdote about navigating a high-crime neighborhood by appearing purposeful to avoid becoming a target.

Leadership and Authority

The discussion extends to the role of leadership and authority in shaping interactions. Peterson brings up the biblical story of Moses striking the rock instead of speaking to it, leading to consequences for his leadership. They explore the idea that effective leadership involves listening and interacting with others rather than imposing one's will forcefully.

Book Recommendation

Peterson recommends Nørretranders' book "The User Illusion" as a valuable resource on consciousness. He praises the book for its scientific grounding, accessibility, and original insights into the relationship between compression, focus, reduction, and consciousness. He highlights the depth and elegance of Nørretranders' writing, making it a must-read for those interested in the topic.