Why Comedies Suck Now - Judd Apatow (4K)

This conversation with Judd Apatow delves into the complex intersection of trauma and creativity, the unique challenges of comedy compared to other art forms like music, and the personal and professional dynamics that shape a career in entertainment. Judd reflects on his early experiences, the influence of mentors, the evolution of comedy in a changing media landscape, and the nuances of navigating fame, collaboration, and creative risk.

Trauma and Creativity

Judd opens up about how his parents' divorce in the early 1980s profoundly shaped his comedic sensibility, providing enough emotional material to fuel his early humor despite wishing for more dramatic backstory like Richard Pryor's grandmother running a brothel. He discusses how pain and discomfort act as creative catalysts across art forms, turning personal struggle into relatable comedy, music, or emotional lyrics. The hypervigilance and obsession born from trauma feed a relentless attention to detail, enabling creators to ruminate on the world's injustices and mysteries, thus enhancing their observational skills and originality.

The Dynamics of Standup Comedy

The nature of standup requires practicing and learning in front of an audience, unlike other skills that can be developed privately. Judd explains the grueling process of "practicing in public," where bombing on stage is inevitable but serves as valuable research and development. He highlights the importance of embracing failure early on to refine material rather than risking disaster in high-stakes environments. The pressure to innovate constantly and avoid repeating old material contrasts heavily with music, where repetitive enjoyment of songs is welcomed by fans.

Comparing Comedy and Music

Judd contrasts comedy with music by noting that whereas musicians often rely on repeated plays of familiar songs, the appeal of comedy lies in novelty and surprise. Repeating jokes too often can be perceived as lazy, whereas a song like The Killers' "Mr. Brightside" thrives on familiarity and repetition. This fundamental difference affects how comedians and musicians approach their craft, audiences' expectations, and the sustainability of success. The constant need for fresh material in comedy brings unique challenges in its development and performance.

Mental and Emotional Challenges in Comedy

Judd reflects on the intense emotional vulnerability required for comedy, where failure on stage can lead to a palpable loss of audience trust and momentum. He recalls his own struggles with anxiety and abandonment issues projected onto relationships with industry executives. This pressure to perform flawlessly can lead to emotional meltdowns, yet comedians must learn to compartmentalize their personal turmoil to be present for their audience, especially when balancing family life. The challenge of relinquishing obsessive control while collaborating is a recurring tension.

Relationships and Collaboration in Entertainment

The conversation explores the ephemeral nature of creative partnerships and friendships in show business. While film and TV projects forge close bonds, those connections often dissolve quickly as projects end, leading to cycles of loss and renewal. Judd discusses the importance of forging new crews and creative families outside traditional institutions like Saturday Night Live, recounting his own experience creating a sketch show with Ben Stiller when direct entry proved difficult. The compensatory culture of independent creation contrasts with the longing for belonging to established, supportive communities.

The Role of Mentors

Judd credits his mentorship under Gary Shandling as pivotal, describing how constructive feedback, encouragement, and shared wisdom accelerated his growth. Mentors serve as trusted second brains, offering validation and honest critique that can instill confidence during the highs and lows of creative work. Judd laments Shandling's absence as a personal and professional loss, underscoring how mentorship is often undervalued despite being crucial in navigating the complex industry landscape.

Navigating Fame and Industry Dynamics

The discussion touches on the balancing act between raw talent and social savvy required to succeed. Judd acknowledges the challenge of maintaining ego and focus amid peers' varying levels of success, like Adam Sandler's meteoric rise. He recalls moments of self-doubt and the constant comparison that can undermine confidence but also motivates relentless work ethic. The conversation also addresses the politics of notes and feedback in television production, highlighting the delicate negotiations involved in maintaining creative vision while satisfying networks and collaborators.

Comedy's Changing Landscape

Judd reflects on why comedies seem to have lost cultural prominence in recent years. The decline of DVD sales and the rise of streaming have altered revenue models, causing studios to prioritize large-budget blockbusters or reliable genres like horror over riskier comedy ventures. This has led to fewer opportunities for new comedic voices to emerge in mainstream cinema, although independent creators and digital platforms offer alternative avenues. He notes that comedy has been absorbed into other genres, blurring traditional boundaries and diluting its distinctiveness.

The Social Dynamics of Comedy Audience and Performance

The episode explores the unpredictable social contract between comedians and audiences. Trust and perceived confidence on stage are paramount; visible nervousness erodes audience faith and can derail shows. Some comedians, like Bill Burr and Stewart Lee, wield crowd dynamics intentionally, sometimes challenging or antagonizing the audience to create tension and involvement. The delicate balance of persona, timing, and energy can make or break a live performance, distinguishing those who can "lean into" failure from those who crumble under pressure.

Artistic Integrity vs. Industry Pragmatism

Judd discusses the tension between maintaining artistic purity and the necessary compromises of working in Hollywood. The myth of the "difficult genius" conflicts with the reality that collaborations require diplomacy and making projects enjoyable for all stakeholders. He notes the phenomenon of "room killers" — negative personalities who disrupt creative environments despite talent — illustrating the importance of chemistry and collaboration for sustainable success. Finding people who challenge your ideas honestly without ego becomes a vital component of producing good work.

The Importance of Risk and Iteration

A theme throughout the conversation is the need for continual experimentation despite uncertainty. Like a baseball player accepting failure as part of the game, comedians and filmmakers must treat every creative attempt as a shot on goal. Judd speaks candidly about the necessity of separating creative flow from critical judgment and embracing mistakes as integral to discovery. He highlights the cyclical nature of success and failure, noting how sometimes art dismissed at release gains appreciation over time, illustrating the unpredictable lifespan of creative works.

Using Comedy to Address Difficult Subjects

Judd advocates for comedy's role in broaching sensitive or serious issues, acting as a salve and a means to reckon with societal challenges. He references comedians like Jimmy Carr who navigate edgy material successfully because of perceived good intentions and underlying empathy. The discussion touches on the complexity of audience taste and the internet's amplification of cancel culture, urging a nuanced appreciation of intent, style, and context in comedic expression.

Building a Career Through Persistence and Generosity

Judd describes his early career approach of relentless hard work, often writing material for others for little or no pay to gain experience and credibility. He emphasizes offering value and over-delivering as crucial strategies to break into the industry. The "work-for-free" mentality serves as an apprenticeship, gradually making oneself indispensable. This pragmatic approach is tempered by the understanding that one must balance artistic vision with collaboration and respect for industry realities.

Final Reflections on Creative Process and Legacy

Toward the end, Judd reflects on the delayed nature of recognition in filmmaking, where movies may be poorly received initially but gain cult status years later. He contrasts this with the instantaneous feedback cycle of standup to reveal the diverse temporal rhythms of creative validation. Judd underscores the importance of trusting the process, separating creation from judgment, and finding joy in the act of making art amidst uncertainty.