Tal Wilkenfeld: Overcoming Fear, Grief, and the Spiritual Expression of Music

Added: Jan 10, 2024

In this podcast episode, Lex Fridman interviews Tal Wilkenfeld, a singer, songwriter, bassist, and guitarist who has recorded and performed with many legendary artists, including Jeff Beck, Prince and Eric Clapton. She shares her experiences and insights as a musician, as well as her thoughts on grief, meditation, and the connections between musicians and comedians.

Key takeaways

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Trust over confidence is important for musicians to embrace vulnerability and genuine expression.

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Laughter and connection with comedians can help navigate grief and difficult times.

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Meditation plays a significant role in connecting with bandmates and navigating challenging emotions.

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Understanding the why behind playing music and the power of the right word in songwriting are crucial.

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Embracing impermanence and appreciating every moment is essential for personal growth and fulfillment.

Overcoming Fear and Embracing Trust

Wilkenfeld discusses the importance of trust over confidence, stating that fear can wall off musicians from their true expression. She emphasizes the need to stand on the edge of the cliff, where all possibilities and unknowns exist, allowing for a more expansive and vulnerable musical experience. She shares her experience of playing with Jeff Beck at the Crossroads Festival, highlighting the trust and lack of fear that allowed for a genuine and connected performance.

Dealing with Grief and Loss

Wilkenfeld opens up about her experiences with grief, particularly following the deaths of influential musicians such as Leonard Cohen, Prince, Greg Allman, and Tom Petty. She describes a period of deep grief and the impact it had on her, leading her to seek solace and healing in unexpected places. She shares how she found comfort and laughter in the company of comedians at The Comedy Store, which helped her navigate the process of grief and loss.

The Power of Meditation

Wilkenfeld discusses the role of meditation in her life, both as a daily practice and as a pre-show ritual. She emphasizes the importance of connecting with her bandmates through group meditation before performances, highlighting the impact it has on their collective energy and connection on stage. She also shares her experiences of meditating in different styles and the ways in which it has helped her navigate challenging emotions and experiences.

Musical Inspiration and Connection

Wilkenfeld reflects on the impact of Leonard Cohen's song "Chelsea Hotel" and its personal significance to her, as she had lived at the Chelsea Hotel and shared a deep connection with Cohen. She discusses the multifaceted emotions evoked by the song and the way it resonates with her own experiences. She also shares a memorable encounter with Leonard Cohen, where he offered her advice on songwriting and the importance of looking at a song from multiple perspectives.

The Intersection of Music and Comedy

Wilkenfeld explores the connections and differences between musicians and comedians, noting that while they may have different personalities, they share a common ability to observe and find humor in life. She describes her experiences at The Comedy Store and the impact of laughter and connection with comedians during a period of grief. She also shares a memorable encounter with Dave Chappelle and the healing power of laughter in difficult times.

The Unpredictability of Life

Wilkenfeld reflects on the unpredictable and interconnected nature of life, sharing personal experiences that have led her to believe in the interconnectedness of experiences and the frequency of magical occurrences. She discusses the significance of unexpected events, such as receiving a bass guitar named "Jeff" after the passing of Jeff Beck, and the ways in which these experiences have shaped her perspective on life and music.

Learning to Play Music

Wilkenfeld discusses her early exposure to music and how she was drawn to the bass at a young age. She talks about her love for artists like Jimi Hendrix, Herbie Hancock, and Rage Against the Machine, and how their music has influenced her own style.

She mentions that she started playing the guitar at the age of 14 and had to learn how to practice in her head due to time constraints imposed by her parents. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the why behind playing music, whether it is for self-expression or a love for art. She also discusses the significance of mentors and the availability of resources such as YouTube for learning and improving musical skills.

Approach to Songwriting

Wilkenfeld shares her approach to songwriting, highlighting the importance of the words in a song and the power of the right word. She mentions that she often writes songs based on personal experiences or draws inspiration from movies and conversations. She also discusses the process of refining and crafting songs, citing Leonard Cohen's extensive work on the song "Hallelujah" as an example of rigorous songwriting.

Understanding Instruments

Wilkenfeld emphasizes the importance of understanding each instrument as its own journey. She explains that every instrument has its strengths, limitations, and range, and that mastering an instrument involves both the physical and expressive aspects. She also discusses the significance of slowing down and paying attention to the details of playing an instrument, such as tone, touch, and intention.

Emotional and Spiritual Expression

Wilkenfeld draws parallels between playing music and sitting with one's emotions, emphasizing the spiritual and emotional aspects of musical expression. She discusses the importance of observing and being present with each note, similar to sitting with one's emotions and allowing them to be felt fully. She also highlights the spiritual and meditative aspects of music, emphasizing the need to slow down and observe the fullness of tone and expression in playing music.

Personal Growth and Learning

Wilkenfeld reflects on her personal growth and learning experiences, mentioning her exposure to different mentors and musicians. She emphasizes the value of being in the presence of masters and the impact it can have on one's understanding and expression of music. Wilkenfeld also discusses the importance of trusting oneself and understanding one's strengths in learning and practicing music.

The Role of Love and Impermanence

Wilkenfeld reflects on the role of love in the human condition, emphasizing its significance as a form of consciousness and the only permanent aspect of life. She also discusses the impermanence of everything else, including the physical body and the fleeting nature of life. She encourages listeners to embrace the impermanence of life and to appreciate every moment, regardless of its transitory nature.

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