Traditional Narratives & Rebuilding Social Fabric - Ben Shapiro & Jordan Peterson

Added: Jan 30, 2024

The Victim-Victimizer Narrative

The primary narrative that shapes human behavior and values is the victim-victimizer narrative, which has its roots in ancient stories such as the biblical tale of Cain and Abel. The postmodernists have adopted and expanded this narrative, insisting that all narratives are about power dynamics. They project their own narrative as the driving force behind all human behavior, leading to the belief that every narrative is driven by an underlying power substructure.

Postmodernism

Marxism and postmodernism share the victim-victimizer narrative, but the postmodernists have inverted the hierarchy by placing economic oppression at the bottom of the intersectional hierarchy. This inversion has led to a metamorphosis of Marxism into a multi-dimensional victim-victimizer narrative, where individuals can be both victims and victimizers on various dimensions of comparison simultaneously.

Large Language Models

The discussion also delves into the role of large language models in mapping out the relationship between words and concepts, providing an empirical validation for the Freudian notion of symbols. They explore the idea that the interpretation of narratives is not arbitrary, as the relationships between concepts can be statistically mapped out, leading to clusters of concepts that function as archetypes or symbols.

The Unjust Steward

The conversation then shifts to the biblical parable of the unjust steward and its implications for the relationship between power, hedonism, and the deterioration of societal structures. They discuss the idea that the deterioration of patriarchal structures leads to the corruption of femininity and the disinhibition of female sexuality, which can manifest as a marketable commodity. This leads to an alignment of power and hedonism, where the pursuit of short-term hedonic pleasures becomes the primary narrative, ultimately leading to conflict and the breakdown of social relationships.

Book of Revelation

They also explore the concept of the Beast and the horror of Babylon in the Book of Revelation, discussing how the collapse of unifying structures leads to the emergence of states of potential domination by hedonistic whims and motivations. The pursuit of short-term desires, associated with power and hedonism, leads to sexual boredom and the erosion of social norms and taboos, ultimately resulting in the inability to form meaningful relationships.

The Power of Traditional Narratives

Peterson and Shapiro stress the significance of traditional narratives in shaping human behavior and societal values. They argue that these narratives provide a framework for understanding the world and guide individuals in making moral decisions. They also highlight the role of conversation and oral learning in preserving and transmitting these narratives. They suggest that the decline of conversation and oral learning in modern society has led to a weakening of traditional narratives.

The Importance of Trustworthy Storytellers

The speakers emphasize the importance of trustworthy storytellers in transmitting traditional narratives. They argue that the credibility of the storyteller is crucial in shaping the narrative's impact on the listener. They discuss the role of parents, community members, and religious leaders in passing down these narratives and shaping the moral compass of individuals.

The Dangers of Fragmentation and Hypocrisy

Peterson and Shapiro discuss the dangers of fragmentation and hypocrisy in the transmission of traditional narratives. They argue that the Protestant insistence on the sufficiency of the biblical corpus has led to a fragmentation of narratives, resulting in a multitude of interpretations and a lack of a unifying narrative. They also highlight the danger of moral hypocrisy, where individuals claim moral virtue while using religious or traditional narratives to justify self-serving behavior.

The Impact of Bullying and Marginalization

The speakers address the impact of bullying and marginalization on individuals and their ability to rise above adversity. They argue that while bullying and marginalization can be detrimental, they can also serve as fuel for individuals to strive for greater success. They caution against labeling the entire system as unfair, as this can lead to a victim mentality and a lack of personal responsibility.

The Role of Vulnerability and Moral Agency

Peterson and Shapiro discuss the vulnerability inherent in human life and the importance of moral agency in responding to adversity. They emphasize that everyone starts out vulnerable and subject to the depredations of nature and social order. They argue that the proper response to vulnerability is to act as moral agents and strive towards the good, rather than succumbing to bitterness and resentment.

The Role of Elders in Society

The conversation continues with a discussion of the role of elders in society. Both Peterson and Shapiro agree that elders play a crucial role in providing wisdom, guidance, and support to younger generations. They emphasize that elders are not necessarily the rich and powerful, as Marxist theory might suggest, but rather individuals who have a lengthy history of honesty, productivity, and generosity. The wisdom derived from their experiences makes them valuable sources of advice and guidance for the community.

The Breakdown of Intergenerational Transmission of Knowledge

Peterson and Shapiro lament the breakdown of intergenerational transmission of knowledge in modern society. They note that the marginalization of the elderly, the removal of responsibility from parents to grandparents, and the encroachment of an ever-larger state have contributed to the loss of traditional wisdom. They argue that the responsibilities of raising children and caring for the elderly have been alleviated by the state, leading to the marginalization of the elderly and the loss of valuable wisdom for younger generations.

The Importance of Responsibility

The conversation then shifts to the concept of responsibility and its role in society. Both speakers emphasize that responsibility is not a burden but a form of freedom and meaning. They discuss the value of taking on responsibilities, such as raising a family, building a community, and contributing to the social fabric. They argue that the marginalization of the elderly and the breakdown of social relationships have led to the infantilization of children and young adults, as well as the loss of traditional wisdom.

The Need to Rebuild the Social Fabric

Peterson and Shapiro stress the need to rebuild the social fabric from the ground up. They argue that the current disillusionment with politics and principles has led to a fragmented and shallow political dialogue. They emphasize the importance of building strong families, joining religious communities, and engaging in in-person events and meetings to reestablish the social structures that have been eroded over time. They also highlight the value of individual actions in contributing to the long-term stability and health of society.

The Role of Legacy and Building from the Ground Up

The speakers discuss the significance of individual actions and the building of a legacy. They emphasize that the most long-lasting impact individuals can have on society is through their actions and the values they instill in their families. They stress the importance of rebuilding the social fabric from the ground up and the need to resist the temptation of imposing top-down solutions. They argue that the rebuilding process is long and difficult but essential for the future of society.

The Gospel Seminar and Cultural Hunger for Sacred Discussions

Peterson and Shapiro mention the upcoming Gospel seminar and the success of the Exodus seminar. They note that the popularity of these seminars reflects a widespread cultural hunger for proper discussions of the sacred and the underlying principles that shape society. They emphasize the value of engaging in conversations that push the boundaries of first principles and address the deeper aspects of human existence.