Joe Rogan Experience #2439 - Johnny Knoxville

In this podcast episode, Joe Rogan engages with Johnny Knoxville in an extensive and wide-ranging conversation covering Knoxville's unique career trajectory, experiences with extreme stunts, reflections on injuries and health, insights into fighting and combat sports, and discussions about sociocultural topics such as addiction and discrimination. The duo delves into Knoxville's beginnings with Jackass, his time on Fear Factor, encounters with animals during daring stunts, the implications of traumatic injuries, and the mental toll of his daring lifestyle. They also cover aspects of combat sports, notable fighters, doping controversies, and even touch on historical figures like Hitler and pioneering technology. The discussion is both candid and insightful, providing a deep look into Knoxville's life and his perspectives on numerous subjects.

Early Encounters and Influences

Johnny Knoxville recalls meeting notable stuntman Judo Gene LeBell, known for his judo expertise and colorful personality. LeBell had a legend in martial arts and stunt circles, renowned for choking out stunt performers as initiation, distributing patches as tokens of honor. Knoxville shares humorous anecdotes of LeBell's toughness and dominance, including an encounter where he effortlessly subdued Bruce Lee during a training session on the set of The Green Hornet. This encounter underscored LeBell's grappling mastery and imparted the importance of ground fighting to Lee. The story sets the tone for a discussion about martial arts respect, physical toughness, and the culture surrounding combat sports and stunt performers.

The Genesis of Jackass and Early Career Struggles

Knoxville reveals how the conception of Jackass arose from personal crisis and necessity. Facing impending fatherhood and unemployment in Los Angeles, he leveraged connections, including a neighbor who was director Antoine Fuqua and a friend who facilitated writing opportunities, to carve out a niche. One pivotal moment involved testing self-defense equipment on himself for a magazine article, which eventually evolved into stunts captured on camera and led to the formation of Jackass. This origin story paints a picture of desperation fueling creativity and the unintended consequences of mixing ambition with reckless humor. Knoxville describes the transformative effect of responsibility as a father motivating him to engage seriously with his work.

Extreme Stunts and Close Calls

Johnny recounts various high-risk stunts from the Jackass franchise, some of which brought him perilously close to severe injury or death. Among these are the bull-related stunts, notably the time a bull lifted and flipped him onto concrete, resulting in a concussion, broken ribs, and a broken wrist. He also shares an incident involving a falling steel wall that nearly crushed him—his hyper-limber body and quick reflexes arguably saving him from severe harm. Knoxville discusses the chaotic, improvised nature of filming these stunts, the constant presence of danger, and the psychological challenges of pushing physical limits repeatedly. Despite numerous concussions, broken bones, and close calls, Knoxville's attitude toward injury evolved to where concussions are no longer an option, though he remains undeterred by bone breaks.

Fear Factor and Hosting Challenges

The conversation shifts to Knoxville's experience hosting Fear Factor. Initially uncertain about taking the job, he was persuaded after meeting Sharon Levy, the showrunner. Knoxville's stewardship saw many intense, dangerous challenges, including bull riding and swallowing disgusting things, which tested not only contestants but production safety protocols. He reflects on moments of genuine fear and ethical concerns where he voiced opposition to certain stunts, highlighting the fine line between entertainment and recklessness. Additionally, the show faced backlash, especially after controversial episodes involving contestants drinking donkey semen and urine, which led to cancellation. Knoxville also shares how he used to get high on set to ease the monotony and how he took on the role of motivational coach to help fearful contestants push through their challenges.

Injuries, Health, and Mental Health

A frank discussion emerges about the toll of decades of risky behavior on Knoxville's body and mind. Concussions have forced him to cease stunts likely to cause brain trauma. Knoxville describes a particularly brutal bull stunt that led to brain hemorrhage, concussions, and physical injuries. He details his recovery process, including a phase of depression, anxiety, and catastrophic thinking—"going offline" mentally for several months—before going on medication and undergoing transcranial magnetic stimulation therapy. He explains the challenge of mental health issues in this context and his reluctance to fully unpack these struggles even with therapists, fearing unraveling the part of himself connected to stunt performing. Physically, he also reveals chronic lower back pain treated with advanced procedures like radiofrequency nerve ablation and discusses recommended equipment such as the reverse hyper machine for spinal health.

Animal Stunts and Safety Protocols

Knoxville discusses the unpredictable nature of performing stunts involving wild animals. From bulls, alligators, lions, to hyenas, the risks are high and often controlled by unpredictable creatures with powerful instincts. He illustrates the tension on set and strict protocols, including maintaining positive morale and avoiding negativity as animals can sense tension. Stories include near encounters where poisonous or dangerous wildlife might have caused serious harm, and the limited backup plans available in such scenarios. The tales underline the raw danger of mixing humans and wild animals for entertainment, highlighting moments where luck played as much a role as planning.

Combat Sports Insights

The dialogue moves into Knoxville's knowledge and enthusiasm for combat sports, drawing from decades of experience watching, commentating, and interviewing fighters. He goes deep into discussions about famous fighters such as Fedor Emelianenko, Kane Velasquez, Randy Couture, Brock Lesnar, and emerging talent like Gable Stevenson. They examine fighting styles, mental toughness, the physiological effects of injuries, and issues around weight cutting and performance. Knoxville highlights the physical demands of elite fighters, including the challenges of withstanding repeated concussions and the mental hurdles post-knockout. He also assesses the impact of doping in sports, referencing the controversial Russian doping programs portrayed in documentaries and the broader implications of performance-enhancing drugs in MMA and boxing.

Historical and Cultural Reflections

The conversation branches to historical topics including World War II, Adolf Hitler's health and drug use, and pioneering technology. Knoxville and Rogan discuss documents revealing Hitler's methamphetamine and opiate use and physical conditions, painting a disturbing portrait of the dictator's vulnerabilities and medical status. The role of Alan Turing and his tragic life is discussed, commemorating his foundational work in artificial intelligence and the devastating effects of persecution for his sexuality. The dialogue acknowledges the rapid social progress since then, from entrenched discrimination to contemporary acceptance and celebration of LGBTQ+ identities. They touch briefly on the Turing test and the advances in AI reaching human-like capabilities, linking past scientific achievements to current technological wonders.

Documentary Work and Personal Projects

Knoxville opens up about his interest and involvement in documentary filmmaking beyond Jackass. He cites Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia, a powerful film exploring addiction, poverty, and family dynamics in Appalachia. He reflects on the complexity and sadness of the stories these documentaries capture—people trapped within cycles of despair and hardship but often possessing raw charisma and humor that make their experiences compelling. Knoxville discusses ongoing interests in other documentary projects, including a film about David Allen Co, an outlaw country musician with a tumultuous life. The discussions reveal Knoxville's deeper, often overlooked interests beyond stunt work and comedy, emphasizing storytelling about marginalized communities.

Mental Health Stigma and Personal Boundaries

Throughout the episode, Knoxville reveals a tension between exposing personal struggles and maintaining boundaries, especially regarding mental health and the more dangerous parts of his career. He admits to having a therapist but sets limits on what he discusses, particularly avoiding detailed conversations about stunt-related trauma to protect his own psyche and perhaps career. His vulnerability about the dark phases post-injury contrasts with his public image as a fearless daredevil. This candidness provides insight into the psychological costs of his work and the coping mechanisms employed. The conversation also touches on general societal stigmas around masculinity, mental health, and the difficulty of confronting these issues openly within high-risk professions.

Cultural Impact and Legacy

Knoxville and Rogan conclude with reflections on the cultural footprint of Jackass and related projects. He acknowledges how the show, originating with a circle of friends, spawned a chapter in modern pop culture history marked by humor, outrageous stunts, and a raw spirit of friendship. Despite the dangers and controversies, Knoxville embraces the impact on audiences who found laughter and entertainment in the antics. They reminisce about the unique approach to filming, the improvisational chaos, the ethos of camaraderie, and the lasting narratives the series created. Knoxville also expresses some anxiety when watching the content himself, revealing the emotional complexities behind the humor and spectacle that captivated millions.