Joe Rogan Experience #2180 - Jordan Peterson

Added: Jul 26, 2024

Wrestling with God

Peterson discusses his new book "We Who Wrestle with God," explaining that the concept of wrestling with God involves making moral decisions with every word one speaks. He emphasizes the importance of using language truthfully rather than manipulatively. He relates this idea to the Judeo-Christian concept of the Word as the basis of reality and the process that generates order out of chaos. He also touches on the idea of Israel meaning "those who wrestle with God" and how this relates to conscience and moral decision-making.

The Nature of Reality and Consciousness

The conversation shifts to the nature of reality and consciousness. Peterson discusses how much of the reality surrounding us has emerged from what we've said and done. He explains the Judeo-Christian view that humans are created in God's image, capable of shaping reality through our words and actions. He contrasts this with the materialistic view of reality, emphasizing the role of consciousness in bringing about reality.

Peterson then delves into the concept of orienting oneself properly in the world, referencing the Sermon on the Mount as an instruction manual for this. He explains the importance of aiming at the highest good, treating others as having intrinsic value, and paying attention to each moment. He argues that by doing this, one can bring about a reality that is good and meaningful.

Psychedelic Experiences and Religious Revelations

Rogan brings up the topic of psychedelic experiences and their potential connection to religious revelations. Peterson acknowledges the long history of psychedelic use in human cultures and its potential role in shaping society and human consciousness. He discusses the idea that psychedelics can amplify one's sense of intrinsic interest and strip away habitual perceptions, allowing one to see what's truly there.

The conversation touches on various theories about the role of psychedelics in religious experiences, including the possibility that Moses' encounter with the burning bush was a DMT experience. Peterson expresses uncertainty about these theories but acknowledges the profound impact psychedelics have had on human culture and thought.

Education and Peterson Academy

Peterson introduces his new online education platform, Peterson Academy. He explains that the academy aims to provide high-quality university-level education at a fraction of the cost of traditional institutions. He describes the courses as featuring some of the best lecturers in the world, covering a wide range of topics from philosophy and psychology to science and history.

The academy's approach involves high-quality video production, interactive elements, and a social media platform for students to engage with each other. Peterson emphasizes the importance of creating a community of responsible, achievement-oriented, and intellectually curious individuals. He also discusses the challenges of pricing the courses and ensuring the quality of the social media platform.

Crisis in Higher Education

Peterson and Rogan discuss the current crisis in higher education, touching on issues such as affordability, ideological capture, and the erosion of academic standards. Peterson argues that many universities have been taken over by a "resentful spirit" that he traces back to Marxist and postmodernist ideologies. He criticizes the postmodernist rejection of overarching narratives and the tendency to view all relationships through the lens of oppressor versus oppressed.

The conversation also covers the recent controversies surrounding elite universities, including the resignation of Harvard's president and the testimonies of university presidents before Congress. Peterson expresses deep concern about the state of higher education and suggests that traditional institutions may be beyond repair.

Gender Identity and Medical Ethics

A significant portion of the conversation is devoted to discussing the controversial topic of gender identity and medical interventions for minors. Peterson expresses strong opposition to what he sees as rushed and potentially harmful medical treatments for children experiencing gender dysphoria. He argues that many mental health professionals are aware of the problems with current approaches but are afraid to speak out due to professional and social pressures.

Peterson shares his own experience of being targeted by professional licensing boards in Canada for his outspoken views on this and other topics. He discusses the legal battles he's facing and his determination to fight against what he sees as ideological capture of professional organizations.

Artificial Intelligence and the Future

The conversation concludes with a discussion of artificial intelligence and its potential impact on society. Peterson shares his experiences using AI language models in his writing process and expresses both excitement and concern about the rapid advancement of AI technology. He emphasizes the importance of how we train and align AI systems with human values and interests.

Peterson draws parallels between the challenge of aligning AI with human interests and the challenge of raising children to be responsible adults. He argues that a classical religious and humanistic education provides a stable axis around which other knowledge can be organized, and suggests that a similar approach might be necessary for developing beneficial AI systems.

Conclusion

The podcast concludes with Rogan and Peterson expressing mutual appreciation for each other's work and a brief preview of one of Peterson's courses on the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. Overall, the conversation provides a wide-ranging exploration of Peterson's thoughts on education, culture, psychology, and the challenges facing contemporary society.