Joe Rogan Experience #2368 - Michael Button

Michael explains that his academic journey was traditional in terms of formal education, but he encountered discomfort with some mainstream historical narratives, especially ideas about humanity's timeline and the development of civilization. Inspired by recent discoveries during his studies, such as those relating to early Homo sapiens remains being far older than previously believed, he began questioning the accepted timeframe for human advancement and cultural complexity. This initial doubt fueled his exploration of history beyond its orthodox bounds and shaped his approach to sharing these ideas through YouTube and broader discussions.

Questioning the Traditional Timeline of Civilization

A recurring theme in Michael's discourse is the problematic nature of the commonly accepted timeline about human history and civilization's origins. He voices skepticism toward the notion that nothing significant happened for hundreds of thousands of years until roughly 10,000 years ago during the Neolithic Revolution. Michael finds it absurd that anatomically modern humans are believed to have existed for over 300,000 years but supposedly remained in rudimentary, hunter-gatherer states without advancing culturally or technologically during that expanse.

The discovery of early Homo sapiens remains in Morocco, dated to over 315,000 years ago, challenges the established chronology and raises fundamental questions about human behavior and societal formation over vast timeframes. Michael argues that this discovery and other climatic events throughout history, such as natural disasters and climate fluctuations that caused collapses of Bronze Age civilizations, imply that earlier cultures may have existed and been lost due to cataclysms. Consequently, the human historical narrative may be incomplete or distorted, overlooking complex societies that predate accepted origins.

Göbekli Tepe and the Paradigm Shift in Ancient History

Göbekli Tepe, a significant archaeological site dated about 12,000 years ago, features heavily in the conversation as a major disruptive discovery that challenges orthodox views. Michael regards it as the "biggest smoking gun" for reevaluating what defines civilization because it presents evidence of monumental construction, sophisticated symbolism, and cultural complexity existing well before the traditional "birth" of civilization in Mesopotamia.

Michael emphasizes the vastness of Göbekli Tepe's cultural footprint with numerous sites connected through shared symbolic language and megalithic architecture, currently only partially excavated. He highlights the paradox of having such an advanced and organized culture markedly predating the emergence of agriculture, which orthodox history often considers a prerequisite for civilization. This forces a reconsideration of whether the narrow Mesopotamian model of civilization is adequate to define all human societies or if other developmental pathways existed elsewhere and earlier.

The Concept of Cataclysms and Lost Civilizations

The notion that global or regional catastrophes repeatedly reset human development is another central idea Michael raises. Drawing from knowledge about the Late Bronze Age collapse, thought to be caused by minor climatic shifts triggering societal breakdowns, he suggests that much more severe—and perhaps more frequent—events could have erased signs of earlier civilizations. These cataclysms, including volcanic eruptions, comet impacts, and rapid desertification, have the potential to wipe out entire cultures, leaving little to no trace surviving into the present.

Michael speculates on the "missing" thousands of years between ancient sites like Göbekli Tepe and later civilizations such as Sumer. He posits that rapid environmental changes, particularly the desertification of the Sahara, might have forced populations to migrate and rebuild along the Nile, thus initiating subsequent civilizations like Egypt. The erasure of earlier achievements through natural forces would explain the sudden emergence of historical records rather than a continuous linear progression.

Preservation Problems and the Archaeological Record

A recurring concern Michael articulates is the severe limitation imposed by the preservation problem in archaeology. He points out that only a tiny fraction of human history is accessible to us, primarily from stone artifacts and fossilized remains, given that most organic materials decay and natural forces erase evidence over tens or hundreds of thousands of years. This stark reality undermines confident reconstructions of prehistory based on very scarce snapshots, such as the nine known Homo sapiens sites dated older than 100,000 years.

Marrying this perspective with an examination of modern materials, he argues even current human civilization's physical legacy would largely disappear within a few tens of thousands of years, complicated further by climate events and sea level changes. Consequently, this preservation bias means conventional timelines and views are inherently incomplete, and earlier advanced human cultures—if they existed—may remain undetectable with current archaeological techniques.

The Columbbo Structure: A Cognitive Revolution Reconsidered

One particularly paradigm-shaking archaeological discovery discussed is the Columbbo Structure in modern-day Zambia, a wooden construction dated to roughly 476,000 years ago and attributed to Homo heidelbergensis or another pre-Homo sapiens species. The finding suggests that complex architectural planning and permanent settlement living predate the evolution of anatomically modern humans by hundreds of thousands of years and far reshape ideas of cognitive development.

Michael highlights that such an ancient example of structured living and engineered building demolishes the popular assumption that behavioral modernity and intelligence arose a mere 50 to 60,000 years ago. If pre-sapiens hominids had the capability for complex construction almost half a million years ago, it implies that intelligence, technology, and social organization have far deeper evolutionary roots, calling for a revision of anthropological and archaeological orthodoxies regarding human progression.

Mysteries Underneath Ancient Egyptian Monuments

The conversation shifts to Egypt's Giza Plateau, where recent Italian research employing pyramid tomography suggests the existence of vast, mysterious underground structures beneath the Great Pyramid, including colossal pillars and possibly metallic coils extending kilometers deep. Michael expresses cautious excitement about the possibility that conventional Egyptology has missed a hidden layer of ancient technology or architecture which may radically alter the understanding of Egyptian monuments.

He critically notes the conventional attribution of pyramids as tombs remains unproven, given the absence of burials inside the Great Pyramid itself, and further points out the seeming loss of architectural sophistication in subsequent Egyptian structures. If these scanning findings are validated, they may support theories of ancient advanced technology or powers plants—echoed in controversial claims by researchers like Christopher Dunn—that dwarf modern comprehension and demand a rethinking of human technological history.

Advanced Technology and Lost Knowledge in Ancient Civilizations

Michael touches upon enigmatic artifacts such as the intricate Antikythera Mechanism, a 2,000-year-old Greek device often considered the earliest analog computer, which astonishingly models astronomical cycles with extreme precision. He juxtaposes this with similar examples of technological sophistication from Egypt and other cultures, underlining an uneven and mysterious pattern of lost knowledge and sudden technological progress scattered through history.

These artifacts and constructions suggest the existence of ancient intellectual achievements far beyond what is usually credited to societies of their times, indicating that knowledge may have been accumulated, lost, and rediscovered cyclically over millennia. Michael speculates that humanity's technological development is far from linear, and that there could be diverse trajectories of civilization diverging from the standardized narrative dominated by agriculture, urbanism, and industry.

Alternative Species and Unexplained Human Ancestors

The discussion delves into recently discovered archaic human relatives, including species like Homo juluensis with larger brain capacities than modern humans and contemporaneous existence with Homo sapiens. Michael explains how new fossil finds are continuously elongating and complicating the human family tree, hinting at giants or other hominin variants that ancient myths may have encoded.

He also explores controversial mummified beings found in Peru, which exhibit three fingers and three toes, unusual skeletal structures, and heads unlike modern humans. Radiological scans of these mummies reveal intact bone and tissue structures, fueling questions about other intelligent life forms existing alongside us or visiting from unknown origins. These anomalies challenge prevailing anthropological frameworks and could point to overlooked or suppressed histories.

The Role of Psychedelics and Altered States in Human Progress

Throughout the conversation, Michael weaves in the significance of psychedelics in human culture, referencing their deep historical roots and theorizing their importance in cognitive evolution and spiritual development. He suggests that mind-altering substances potentially facilitated interactions with the environment and the cosmos, fostering creativity and complex belief systems.

He laments the modern prohibition and suppression of psychedelics, which he considers a major obstacle to understanding human consciousness and history fully. The dissolution of ego and increased openness resulting from these substances contrast sharply with rigid academic structures that resist paradigm shifts, mirroring the broader conflicts between orthodox science and alternative hypotheses about human origins and culture.

Contemporary Reflections: Scientific Gatekeeping and Evolving Histories

Finally, Michael reflects critically on academic gatekeeping and the protective identities of scholars invested in orthodox narratives. He observes that entrenched experts often dismiss or malign alternative ideas and researchers like Graham Hancock, fearing challenges to long-held claims and their professional reputations. Michael encourages openness to reevaluation and embracing new evidence to refine humanity's historical understanding.

He notes that younger scholars and the democratization of information via the internet may accelerate these shifts, allowing unconventional perspectives to gain traction and push the boundaries of accepted knowledge. Michael envisions a future where richer, more nuanced narratives of human history emerge, integrating discoveries that span deep time, lost civilizations, and possibly even encounters with other forms of intelligence.