Discovering Yourself In Tragedy: Love, Grief, Healing & Finding Meaning | Steph Catudal X Rich Roll

Added: Oct 16, 2023

Steph shares her personal journey of healing, which was deeply intertwined with the experience of almost losing her husband, Tom Rivs, to a rare form of lung cancer. She discusses the ongoing process of healing and how there is no finality to grief. Steph emphasizes the importance of accepting that healing is a continuous journey and that there is no destination.

The conversation also delves into the process of writing the book and the emotional rawness that Steph experienced while writing it. She explains that she was still healing from the trauma of her husband's illness as she was writing, which is why the book is so raw and emotionally charged. Steph acknowledges that she will continue to evolve and learn from her experiences, and that the book will serve as a reminder of her growth in the future.

The discussion then shifts to the impact of Rivs' illness on their lives and the public's perception of their relationship. Steph reflects on the idealized image that people projected onto them and the tension between protecting their privacy and sharing their story with the public. She explains that while the support from others was a saving grace, there was also an expectation that their lives would be an open book. Steph and Rivs are now working to deconstruct the notion of being a perfect couple and to embrace their imperfections.

Steph's background growing up in a Mormon household and her relationship with religion and spirituality are also explored. She shares that she initially believed that her faith could heal her father when he was diagnosed with lung cancer. However, his passing shattered her belief in religion and spirituality. Steph then embarked on a rebellious phase, turning to alcohol and drugs to numb her pain. It took her several years to realize that her destructive behavior was a result of her unresolved grief.

The conversation touches on the challenges of parenting while dealing with a loved one's illness. Steph discusses the difficulty of finding the right balance between protecting her children and being transparent with them. She acknowledges that there is no perfect way to lead a child through tragedy and that each child is different in how they cope with difficult situations. Steph emphasizes the importance of being open with children and allowing them to experience and express their emotions.

The podcast also explores the concept of strength and how it can be redefined. Steph shares that she used to view strength as being stoic and unemotional, but she has learned that it takes strength to allow oneself to experience difficult emotions and to be vulnerable with others. She hopes to model this for her children and teach them that sadness is a natural response to challenging situations.

Steph continues by discussing her background and how she grew up in a Mormon household. She talks about her rebellious nature and her struggle to find her own identity within the confines of her religious upbringing. Steph also shares her experiences with addiction and codependent relationships, particularly with boyfriends who had substance abuse issues.

The discussion then shifts to the topic of drugs and alcohol, and Steph's relationship with them. She explains that she doesn't have an addictive personality like her partners, but she enjoys having a good time within certain boundaries. Steph reflects on the guilt she felt during her adolescence, believing that she was leading others away from sobriety.

Rich asks Steph about her attraction to extreme personalities, and she admits that there is something extreme about herself as well. She mentions that she is covered in tattoos and is able to do things in moderation, unlike her partners. Steph expresses her curiosity about why she is not prone to going over the edge like others and acknowledges that she is still figuring it out.

The conversation then delves into Steph's experiences at BYU Hawaii, a Mormon institution. She talks about the ecclesiastical endorsement process and how she chose to be honest about her lifestyle choices, even though it meant she would not be admitted. Steph shares a surprising response from the bishop, who told her that those things don't really matter and that she is a good person.

Steph reflects on her evolving relationship with spirituality and the concept of time. She discusses her experiences with psychedelics, particularly a hero mushroom journey that cracked her open to the possibility of spirituality. Steph credits this experience with helping her handle her husband's illness, as it opened her up to the idea of conducting love into him through a spiritual channel.

The conversation then explores the malleability of time and the idea that all moments are ever-present. Steph shares her experiences in her husband's hospital room, where time seemed to suspend and she felt more connected to the universe than ever before. She describes the palpable love in the room and how it transcended the tragic and sad moments.

Steph also discusses her husband's experiences in a coma and how he lived lifetimes in that state. She acknowledges that these memories may feel more real than his current life and ponders the quantum aspects of time and consciousness.

The discussion then turns to the themes of duality and the in-between spaces. Steph talks about how she was raised to believe in polarity and the struggle she faced in accepting the gray areas of life. She shares her realization that the best of life exists in the in-between spaces and that emotions are not inherently good or bad, but rather complimentary and necessary.

Steph reflects on the choices we have in the face of tragedy and how we can choose to allow it to make us stronger or break us beyond repair. She shares her own journey of reframing her past experiences and recognizing that they were building her up rather than breaking her down.

The conversation continues with a discussion on the nature of love. Steph acknowledges that love can show up in different forms and that some relationships are not meant to last forever. She emphasizes the importance of self-love and how it is a reflection of the love we have to give to others.

Steph emphasizes the importance of self-love and acceptance, stating that it is a daily decision she makes to love herself. She believes that when we have love for ourselves, we can feel more love for humanity and receive more love from others. She acknowledges that this perspective may be seen as easy for her to say, given her experiences of love throughout her life, but she also acknowledges that she actively chooses to see love in retrospect, even in the midst of tragedy.

The conversation then turns to the structure or modality for practicing self-love. Steph admits that she doesn't have a specific framework in mind, but she believes that recognizing love in everyday moments and choosing to remember moments of love can help cultivate a sense of love within oneself. She also mentions the importance of recognizing the interconnectedness of humanity and the love that connects us all.

Rich adds that the concept of oneness and interconnectedness is difficult to maintain, especially in a society that often promotes individualism. He suggests that psychedelics can provide a tangible experience of this interconnectedness and that embracing this perspective could benefit society as a whole.

The discussion then shifts to the difficulty of connecting with individuals who are suffering and in need of healing. Steph acknowledges that it can be challenging to reach out to those who are deeply entrenched in their pain and self-destructive narratives. However, she believes that sharing her own experiences and offering a different perspective can potentially help others who are struggling.

Steph mentions that she wrote her book with her past self in mind, knowing that she would have torn it apart if she had read it a few years ago. She hopes that her book can resonate with those who are suffering and lonely, encouraging them to find love within themselves and recognize the love that surrounds them.

The conversation then delves into the topic of shame, particularly in relation to Steph's religious upbringing and rebellious nature. Steph expresses her desire to break free from shame and not pass it on to her children. She differentiates between guilt and shame, stating that guilt is actionable and can lead to personal growth, while shame is a dead end with no purpose.

In conclusion, Steph emphasizes that her book is ultimately about self-acceptance and making sense of her own life. She hopes that readers can gain something from her experiences, but she acknowledges that her book may not resonate with everyone. She also discusses her discomfort with giving advice, as she believes that personal truths are relative to individual experiences.