#2039 - Michael Easter

Added: Sep 27, 2023

The conversation begins with Joe and Michael discussing the recent discoveries in Alaska's Boneyard. They talk about the evidence of saw marks on ancient bones, suggesting that early humans were more advanced than previously thought. They also discuss the age of these bones and how they challenge our understanding of early human capabilities.

Joe and Michael then delve into the human drive for exploration. They talk about how humans have always been curious and driven to explore new territories. They discuss the Polynesians' voyages to uncharted islands and the desire to understand how people live in different places.

The conversation then shifts to the impact of technology on human behavior. Michael explains the concept of the scarcity loop, which is a behavior loop that can lead to addiction. He discusses how slot machines exploit this loop by offering opportunity, unpredictable rewards, and quick repeatability. He also explains how this loop is used in other industries, such as social media, sports gambling, and the gig economy.

Joe and Michael discuss the addictive nature of gambling and how it can hijack the human reward system. They talk about the similarities between gambling and other addictive behaviors, such as drug addiction. They also discuss the role of stimulation in human behavior and how a lack of stimulation can lead to seeking it out in unhealthy ways.

The conversation then turns to the future of humans and technology. Joe expresses his concerns about the integration of humans and technology and the potential pitfalls of this convergence. They discuss the rise of AI and deepfakes and how they can be used to manipulate and deceive people. They also discuss the challenges of distinguishing between what is real and what is fake in the digital age.

The discussion continues with the idea that constantly checking email can drive a person insane. Michael mentions an article about a woman who was fired from her remote job because she didn't meet certain computer activity metrics, even though she had met all her productivity goals. This leads to a conversation about how numbers and algorithms can govern our actions and determine our worth as employees.

Joe and Michael question the effectiveness of using numbers as a measure of productivity. They argue that if an employee can meet their goals in less time than the average person, shouldn't they be considered more productive? They highlight the flaws in relying solely on numbers and suggest that other factors, such as job satisfaction and overall performance, should be taken into account.

The conversation then shifts to the broader impact of numbers on human behavior. They discuss how social media platforms like Twitter have become focused on likes and retweets, which can distort the original goal of fostering discussion. Instead of engaging in meaningful conversations, people start tweeting for the sake of scoring likes and retweets, often resorting to negative and attention-seeking behavior.

They also touch upon the wine industry and how the introduction of numerical ratings by critics like Robert Parker has influenced winemaking practices. Winemakers now strive to produce wines that receive high scores, even if it means compromising their own artistic vision. This highlights the power of numbers in shaping behavior and the tendency to prioritize external validation over personal satisfaction.

The conversation then delves into the concept of happiness and how numbers can't accurately measure it. Michael shares his experience living with Benedictine monks, who lead simple and disciplined lives. Despite their austere lifestyle, studies have shown that these monks report higher levels of happiness compared to the general population. This challenges the notion that material possessions and external achievements are necessary for happiness.

Joe reflects on his own podcasting experience and how it has taught him the importance of creating positive exchanges. He realizes that engaging in negative behavior, such as tearing people down or seeking validation through negative interactions, doesn't contribute to overall happiness. Instead, he aims to create a positive and enjoyable experience for his guests and listeners.

The conversation continues with the idea that most people simply want to be loved and not feel alone. Understanding that people's behaviors are often rooted in deeper reasons can foster empathy and improve interactions with others. By recognizing the limitations of numbers and metrics, individuals can focus on finding higher purposes and creating positive exchanges that contribute to their own happiness and the well-being of others.

Michael continues by discussing his approach to viewing people he encounters. He explains that he tries to see everyone as a baby, considering the circumstances and challenges they may have faced in life. He reflects on the empathy he feels when encountering homeless individuals, realizing that they were once someone's child with potential and that their current situation is a reflection of societal issues.

The conversation then shifts to the topic of addiction. Michael challenges the notion that addiction is solely a brain disease, suggesting that it is more of a symptom of underlying problems. He believes that addiction is a result of using substances to solve short-term problems, which ultimately leads to long-term negative consequences. He emphasizes the importance of understanding addiction as a complex issue with multiple factors at play.

The discussion on addiction leads to a conversation about the legalization of drugs. Michael acknowledges the potential benefits of legalizing drugs, such as reducing the risk of tainted substances and creating a regulated market. However, he also recognizes the potential drawbacks, including increased usage and addiction rates. The conversation highlights the complexity of finding a balance between personal freedom and the potential harm caused by drug use.

The topic of homelessness is also explored in the podcast. Michael expresses concern about the growing number of homeless encampments in cities like Los Angeles. He discusses a law that prevents the relocation of homeless individuals and praises efforts by politicians, such as Gavin Newsom, to address the issue. Michael acknowledges the challenges faced by politicians in managing homelessness and emphasizes the need for empathy and understanding when discussing these issues.

The conversation then delves into Michael's personal experience with addiction. He shares that he has been sober for nine years and reflects on the factors that contributed to his addiction. Michael believes that addiction is not solely determined by genetics but is influenced by various environmental and personal factors. He emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding when discussing addiction, as individuals have different experiences and reasons for their addiction.

The podcast continues with a discussion on the potential for recovery from addiction. Michael shares statistics indicating that many individuals have successfully overcome substance abuse issues, with 50% of them achieving recovery on their own. He highlights the importance of persistence and the ability to apply the same determination used in addiction to other aspects of life.

The discussion continues with Michael sharing a story about a friend who struggled with addiction. He emphasizes that addiction can affect anyone, regardless of their background or circumstances. Michael highlights the importance of taking action and finding something that can replace the addictive behavior. He also mentions that different approaches work for different people, and encourages individuals to explore various options for recovery.

The conversation then shifts to the topic of mental strength, with Michael recounting the story of Kurt Angle, an Olympic wrestler who won a gold medal with a broken neck. Michael describes Angle as one of the mentally strongest individuals in history, highlighting his discipline, drive, and focus. He also discusses the challenges Angle faced with addiction and how he eventually overcame it.

The discussion on mental strength leads to a conversation about the sport of wrestling and its unique characteristics. Michael explains that wrestlers are some of the toughest athletes because they compete for glory rather than financial gain. Unlike other sports where winning can lead to professional opportunities, wrestling offers limited professional outlets. This discussion highlights the mental and physical toughness required in amateur wrestling.

The conversation then turns to the topic of hunting, with Michael and Rogan sharing their experiences and perspectives. They discuss the physical fitness required for hunting, particularly in challenging terrains. Michael emphasizes the importance of preparation and training, sharing his own workout routine and diet. He mentions the benefits of activities like rock climbing and high-intensity interval training for building endurance and strength.

Michael also discusses the rewards of hunting, particularly the satisfaction of successfully completing a challenging hunt. He emphasizes the importance of setting goals and having a purpose behind physical fitness, as it provides motivation and a sense of accomplishment.

The conversation touches on the ethical aspects of hunting, with Michael addressing misconceptions and highlighting the importance of responsible hunting practices. He explains that hunting can be a way to control invasive species and contribute to conservation efforts. Michael also addresses the criticism of hunting and highlights the ethical considerations involved in food production, pointing out that even non-hunters contribute to the loss of life through monocrop agriculture.

The discussion continues with Michael emphasizing the importance of a one-ingredient diet and avoiding processed foods. He highlights the negative effects of ultra-processed foods on health and the role they play in overconsumption. Michael encourages individuals to focus on real, unprocessed foods and to be mindful of their eating habits.

The discussion continues with Michael highlighting the misconception people have about the number of calories in their drinks. He mentions how a seemingly innocent coffee order can contain hundreds of calories, especially when it comes to flavored drinks with added whipped cream. This can lead to a significant calorie intake early in the day, even before breakfast.

The conversation then shifts to the excessive sugar content in certain drinks. Michael mentions an Instagram post that showcased the amount of sugar in a Baskin-Robbins coffee drink, which was a staggering 129 grams. He emphasizes the negative effects of consuming such high amounts of sugar, including the possibility of going into a sugar coma. He also suggests that the lack of physical activity in our daily lives may contribute to the negative impact of sugar on our health.

Michael shares his experience living with a tribe in the jungle, where they consumed sugar cane but had to physically work for it. He explains that the process of extracting sugar from the cane required manual labor, which burned calories and limited the amount of sugar intake. This contrasts with the ease of consuming high-calorie, high-sugar foods in modern society.

The conversation then delves into the food industry's efforts to create hyper-palatable and addictive foods. Michael mentions a study on gambling addiction and how similar tactics are used to make food more appealing and encourage overeating. He acknowledges that people today have easy access to calorie-dense foods, which can lead to excessive calorie intake in a single bite.

The discussion touches on the carnivore diet, which Michael has experimented with. He explains that on this diet, it is difficult to overeat because the absence of carbohydrates makes food less rewarding. He contrasts this with the experience of eating a steak alongside a bowl of pasta, where the reward from the carbs can lead to overeating.

Joe brings up the strategy of competitive eaters who consume fries alongside hot dogs to enable them to eat more. Michael explains that offering a variety of foods can lead to increased consumption, as seen in buffet studies where people tend to eat more than usual. He suggests that cutting out food groups can naturally lead to eating less because it becomes less rewarding.

Michael shares his experience with the tribe he lived with, where meals consisted of bland, subsistence food like wild chicken, white rice, baked plantains, and onions. He contrasts this with the enhanced flavors and textures of modern food, which can lead to overeating. He acknowledges that while the modern food system has its flaws, it has significantly reduced starvation compared to the past.

The conversation concludes with a discussion on food waste. Michael mentions that about a third of food is thrown out, highlighting the need for better distribution and addressing the issue of child starvation, which is often a result of neglectful parenting rather than a lack of food.