Former CIA Spies: "The CIA Tried To Ban This Story!" We're Leaving The US by 2030!

The Discovery of a Mole Inside the CIA

At the heart of the Bustamantes' story lies the discovery of a mole who was leaking critical secrets from within the CIA to a foreign adversary. This mole's betrayal forced the agency into a precarious position: they had to aggressively identify and trap the double agent while protecting ongoing operations. The operation was so sensitive that even many CIA officers were initially unaware of the mole's existence until a foreign ally—likely from the Five Eyes intelligence partners—alerted the U.S. government. This external revelation shocked the community and underscored how serious internal penetrations can be.

Andrew and Jihi were personally enlisted to spearhead a baiting tactic designed to coax the mole into making a mistake. Their mission involved crafting new intelligence sources outside the mole's reach, forcing this insider to extend his reach and eventually reveal himself through suspicious behaviour. The process was fraught with risk, as the mole's access to CIA's "keys to the kingdom" made every operation vulnerable. Their pivotal role in tracking and ultimately enabling the arrest of the mole adds a new dimension to public understanding of counterespionage work inside America's most secretive agency.

Operational Tradecraft and Alias Lives

The Bustamantes' undercover work was marked by the creation of elaborate cover identities and the use of sophisticated methodologies rarely spoken about outside intelligence circles. When deployed, they used fake commercial businesses as cover to collect intelligence in and around what they referred to as "Falcon," a code name for a hostile country hostile to the US. They also operated from a neighboring friendly country called "Wolf," crafting layered travel paths through neutral countries to mask their true origin and avoid enemy detection.

This layered approach, known as "dry cleaning" routes, involved traveling through neutral states with passport swaps and new identities, reducing the risk of surveillance tracing them to their true home base. Through such tactics, Andrew assumed the identity of "Alex Hernandez," managing a fictitious company called Acme Commercial, purporting to source disposable goods. Their daily lives balanced real-world cover business activities, intricate surveillance detection routes, and managing clandestine communications in high-risk environments. The level of detail shared about their operational planning opens a window into a world largely invisible to the public and often romanticized by Hollywood.

Surveillance Detection and Capture Risk

One of the most intense moments Andrew describes is when his presence in the hostile country became known to adversarial intelligence services, presumably after being exposed by the mole. He recounts the terrifying realization of being under active surveillance—multiple vehicles and operatives following him, tracking his every step. The experience of running surveillance detection routes while managing a spike of fear and physiological stress vividly illustrates the psychological demands of spy work.

Despite sophisticated training that included stress mitigation techniques like box breathing and cognitive control, the weight of isolation and threat from being caught or "disappeared" loomed large. Being captured meant plausible deniability from the U.S. government and potential long-term imprisonment or worse. Andrew's tactical approach to dealing with interrogations and evading enemy forces during his eventual escape attempt from the hostile country portrays both the gravity and grit required for survival under such profound pressure.

Modern Espionage Morality and Pragmatism

Throughout their recount, the Bustamantes are clear in describing the CIA's operational mentality as morally ambivalent. Their overriding objective was protecting American lives, even if that meant engaging in activities uncomfortable or objectionable to the average citizen, such as facilitating the distribution of materials like child pornography or gold bullion to assets, or adopting terrorist group cell tactics to outmaneuver adversaries.

They emphasize that espionage today is a team sport relying on foundational tactics learned from the war on terror rather than the glamorized solo agent archetype. This pragmatism underscores how intelligence agencies adapt unconventional and ethically complex tactics in counterintelligence and counterterrorism efforts where the end goal overshadows the means. The Bustamantes' work embodies this principle, showing an agency willing to dive to great depths in unconventional ways to maintain strategic advantage.

The Challenge of Double Agents and Motivations

The episode sheds light on the complex psychology and motivations behind double agents or moles, distinguishing them from stereotypical caricatures. Rather than mere greed, often these betrayed officers are motivated by a toxic combination of unmet validation, loyalty disputes, or being filled with resentment by their own agency. Foreign intelligence services exploit this vulnerability to recruit assets by offering money, protection, and a sense of purpose or appreciation otherwise absent.

This nuanced understanding helps dismantle simplistic narratives about spies. Double agents rarely admit guilt openly and are often prosecuted under lesser charges to protect ongoing investigations. The Bustamantes' insight into the mole's motivation, payment scale, and the FBI sting operation that ultimately led to the mole's arrest emphasizes the professionalism and complexity inherent in catching such insider threats.

CIA Culture and Career Challenges

The Bustamantes also explore the internal culture of the CIA, focusing on the challenges officers face balancing careers with personal lives, especially family. Both Andrew and Jihi recount navigating operations that kept them apart or placed them under mortal risk, all while handling internal expectations and hierarchical pressures. The agency's rigidity, especially regarding family leave or accommodating parenthood, ultimately pushed them toward departing the CIA to prioritize life outside espionage.

They candidly discuss how loyalty to the agency often conflicts with personal fulfillment, describing how agency culture fosters both operational excellence and a need for validation that can trap officers in cycles of self-doubt and sacrifice. Their decision to leave reflects a broader challenge many intelligence professionals face when trying to reconcile dedication to country with needs for stability and parental roles.

The Role of Technology and Security Vulnerabilities

In discussing espionage technology, they emphasize the almost inevitable vulnerabilities inherent in digital devices, software, and communications. They share how devices used in the field are chosen with the assumption they will be hacked or cloned, using tradecraft such as air-gapping and encrypted communications to mitigate but never eliminate risk. The reality that modern adversaries have immense capabilities to breach phones, computers, and networks—even during routine processes like immigration screening—depicts a shadow war of hacking and counter-hacking as integral to covert operations.

Their explanations about FISA requests and intelligence warrants also offer a rare peek into how the government legally surveils individuals suspected of wrongdoing, highlighting that privacy in the digital age is more limited than most citizens realize. This candid acknowledgment challenges illusions around digital security and signals the necessity of operational skepticism for both intelligence officers and civilians alike.

Epstein, Real Front Companies, and Intelligence Business

The conversation veers into broader reflections about intelligence agency operations, including the creation of both fake and legitimate commercial enterprises as fronts for espionage. Andrew reveals how the CIA often runs companies that generate significant profits in addition to funding clandestine activities, blurring the lines between government work and private business ventures.

Their discussion about Jeffrey Epstein is particularly intriguing, reframing Epstein's story through the lens of intelligence asset management. They speculate that Epstein may have been an asset or a bait used by foreign intelligence to collect compromising information rather than merely a criminal mastermind, explaining some of the secrecy and failure to release crucial flight logs or guest lists. This perspective connects known cases of espionage and influence operations with wider public mysteries, showing how intelligence often operates in murky zones between legality and manipulation.

Changing Views on Trust and Human Nature

Both Bustamantes discuss how their exposure to global conflict, human cruelty, and espionage reshaped their perspectives on trust, human nature, and social cohesion. Jihi's work with torture survivors and refugees revealed the deep capacity for harm that humans inflict on one another, complicating any simplistic sense of inherent goodness. Andrew echoes this, noting how trust becomes scarce and fragile in espionage and in life, with only a rare few deserving complete confidence.

Their reflections on the polarizing political and social climate of the United States build on these themes, emphasizing how fear and distrust fuel tribalism and division. They warn that such internal fractures weaken the society's ability to face external threats, underscoring the delicate balance between cooperation and fragmentation in modern national life.

Reflections on U.S. Geopolitics and National Transition

The Bustamantes provide a sobering analysis of the current American political and social landscape. They describe the country as entering a transformative phase marked by the erosion of longstanding democratic norms, increasing executive power, and deep political gridlock. This stalemate hampers effective governance on critical issues like immigration, foreign policy, and budget stability.

They weigh potential outcomes of this transition, assessing probabilities that the U.S. might face prolonged instability and economic difficulty or, alternatively, successfully recalibrate its trajectory under decisive leadership. Their forecast suggests a cautious realism about the risks inherent in current policy choices, warning that failed attempts at reform could result in decades of recovery challenges. The specter of increased societal tribalism and economic decline features heavily in their prognosis, underscoring the urgency of thoughtful national engagement.

Personal Life, Family Priorities, and Departure Plans

A deeply personal thread runs through the conversation, as Andrew and Jihi discuss their motivation to leave the CIA and start anew, balancing their family goals with the demands of intelligence careers. Their experiences underline how operational secrecy, physical danger, and the agency's inflexible expectations create tension with the desire for normal family life.

Their candid revelation about planning to leave the United States by 2030 reflects a broader disenchantment with current American societal trends and governance. They urge individuals to recognize the "writing on the wall" and remain mobile and adaptable, emphasizing the importance of securing joy and connection in the present moment rather than postponing life's meaningful experiences.

Lessons from Espionage for Everyday Life

Finally, the Bustamantes distill key lessons from their intelligence careers applicable to anyone seeking success or resilience. Emphasizing foundational principles over flashy technology or shortcuts, they advocate returning to "sticks and bricks" strategies—reliable basics that endure. This philosophy applies broadly across business, relationships, and personal growth.

They also impart insights on managing stress, mental resilience, negotiation, and reading human behavior, all techniques honed in the spy world but invaluable in everyday life. Their message encourages embracing uncertainty, confronting one's internal doubts or "head trash," and deliberately choosing paths that maximize joy and contribution to others. In this way, their unique experiences offer powerful frameworks for living well in complex, often unpredictable environments.