Our Last Chance To Save The West | Douglas Murray
Added: Jul 7, 2024
Douglas Murray discusses his recent experiences visiting Israel after the October 7th Hamas attacks and covering the aftermath. He notes that Israel has entered a state of war not of its own choosing, and that most of the world remains ignorant of the details due to media reliance on local stringers and journalists in Gaza who may be biased. Murray criticizes the lack of transparency from media outlets about their limited access and potential biases in reporting.
He highlights the unprecedented expectations placed on Israel during this conflict, such as being expected to resupply the civilian population of the enemy while fighting. Murray argues there's an astounding lack of empathy for Israeli victims, contrasting it with how other terrorist attacks are typically viewed. He suggests this stems from miseducation portraying Israel as an aggressor.
Murray contends that criticisms of Israel often trace back to questioning the state's very existence, which he equates to advocating murder given Israel's decades-long history. He sees this as part of a broader philosophy on the left that divides the world into victims and victimizers, with Jews problematically fitting into both categories.
The West's Cultural Challenges
The conversation shifts to broader cultural issues in the West. Murray observes a peculiar "death wish" in Western societies, contrasting it with Israel's higher birth rates and cohesion despite internal divisions. He sees the anti-Israel sentiment as a manifestation of a victim-victimizer worldview prevalent on the left, where supporting the Palestinian cause demonstrates commitment to this ideology.
Murray criticizes the tendency of people to fight "the last culture war," focusing on outdated issues like colonialism while ignoring current problems. He notes a generational disconnect, with many young people seeming to believe they're living in earlier eras of civil rights struggles.
The discussion touches on the collapse of liberal institutions in the face of revolutionary movements. Murray likens the current situation to parents afraid of upsetting their children, creating a dysfunctional dynamic. He expresses hope in a "rebellion beneath the rebellion" of normal people tired of extreme activism.
Challenges to Classical Liberalism
Shapiro raises a conservative critique of classical liberalism, suggesting it can dissolve into moral relativism without a set of confining values. Murray acknowledges this inherent problem in liberalism but proposes that the answer lies in fostering a sense of national identity - what he calls "the widest application of the first person plural."
The conversation touches on the rise of right-wing movements in Europe that are culturally conservative but economically left-leaning. Murray sees this as a tactical approach, noting that once a welfare state reaches a certain size, it becomes difficult to campaign against it. He expresses concern about some of these movements' historical associations with fascism or Nazism, highlighting the high stakes for Europe's future.
America's Role and Isolationism
Murray criticizes the trend of American isolationism, seeing it as inherently contradictory. He argues that isolationists want America to remain the world's dominant power while withdrawing from global affairs, which he sees as incompatible in the face of rising powers like China.
The discussion explores how the relative comfort of the West has resulted in young people searching for excitement in misguided ways, such as through radical activism. He suggests that the West's lack of serious external threats has led to internal decay and a loss of ambition.
Media and Political Landscape
The conversation turns to the current U.S. political landscape, particularly the upcoming 2024 election. Murray predicts a likely Trump victory, citing concerns about President Biden's apparent cognitive decline. He criticizes the Democratic Party for not cultivating a strong next generation of leaders.
He sees the media's handling of Biden's condition as a major credibility issue, noting the stark contrast between their previous assurances of his fitness and his recent debate performance. He criticizes American media for treating politics as a team sport, prioritizing partisan loyalty over honest reporting.
The West's Future and Individual Choice
Despite the challenges discussed, Murray expresses some optimism. He believes that individuals have a choice in how they approach life - they can either become bitter and attribute their failures to external factors, or they can choose a path of courage and ambition. He argues that most people, when presented with this choice clearly, would prefer the latter.
He emphasizes the importance of fostering ambition in society, suggesting that many of the West's economic and social problems stem from a lack of belief in the possibility of personal success. He argues that if a society can convincingly say its best days are ahead, it can overcome many challenges.
Israel's Resilience
Throughout the discussion, Israel is presented as a counterpoint to some of the West's cultural malaise. Murray notes that despite predictions to the contrary, young Israelis have proven themselves up to the challenge of defending their country. He sees this as a potential model for how serious events can reshape a generation's outlook and values.
Media Criticism
A significant portion of the conversation is devoted to criticizing mainstream media coverage, particularly regarding Israel and the Biden administration. Both Shapiro and Murray express frustration with what they see as biased or incomplete reporting, especially in conflict zones like Gaza. They argue that many media outlets have abandoned traditional standards of transparency and objectivity.
The Role of Education
The discussion touches on the influence of education systems in shaping current cultural and political debates. Murray criticizes university curricula that he believes focus too much on past injustices like colonialism while neglecting current global issues. He suggests this contributes to a misplaced sense of activism among young people.
European Political Dynamics
Murray provides insights into the complex political landscape in Europe, particularly the rise of right-wing parties. He notes the delicate balance these parties must strike, often combining right-wing positions on identity and immigration with left-wing economic policies. He expresses concern about the historical baggage some of these parties carry, emphasizing the high stakes for Europe's future.
The Importance of National Identity
Throughout the conversation, Murray emphasizes the importance of fostering a sense of national identity. He argues that this "widest application of the first person plural" is crucial for maintaining social cohesion and providing a framework for addressing societal challenges. This idea is presented as a potential solution to some of the problems arising from classical liberalism's tendency towards moral relativism.
Global Power Dynamics
The discussion touches on global power dynamics, with both Shapiro and Murray expressing skepticism about the true strength of countries often perceived as threats to the West, such as China, Russia, and Iran. They argue that these countries' power is often overestimated, and that the West's challenges are more internal than external.
The Future of the West
Despite the many challenges discussed, the conversation ends on a note of cautious optimism. Murray argues that the West's problems are largely attitudinal and can be addressed through a shift in mindset. He emphasizes the importance of ambition and the belief in a better future, suggesting that if Western countries can convincingly argue that their best days are ahead, they can overcome many of their current challenges.
Individual Responsibility
A key theme that emerges is the importance of individual choice and responsibility. Murray argues that people have a choice between becoming bitter and resentful or choosing a path of courage and ambition. He suggests that most people, when presented with this choice clearly, would choose the latter.
Media Accountability
Both Shapiro and Murray express strong criticism of mainstream media, particularly in relation to coverage of the Israel-Hamas conflict and the Biden administration. They argue for greater transparency in reporting, especially regarding the limitations and potential biases in conflict zone coverage.
The Role of History
Throughout the discussion, there's an emphasis on the importance of historical understanding. Murray criticizes what he sees as a tendency to fight "the last culture war," focusing on past injustices while neglecting current issues. He argues for a more nuanced and current understanding of global dynamics.
Conclusion
The conversation between Ben Shapiro and Douglas Murray covers a wide range of topics, from the specific situation in Israel to broader cultural trends in the West. They express concern about what they see as a decline in Western values and institutions but also offer potential solutions, emphasizing the importance of national identity, individual responsibility, and a renewed sense of ambition and optimism about the future. While critical of many current trends, particularly in media and education, they also see potential for positive change, especially if individuals and societies can reorient themselves towards more constructive goals and values.
