Added: Sep 19, 2023
In this podcast episode, Ben Lamm discusses his work in de-extinction and bringing back extinct species, particularly focusing on the woolly mammoth and the dodo bird. He acknowledges that his company, Colossal, is not the sole solution to global warming and biodiversity loss, but they are committed to restoring ecosystems like the Arctic tundra.When asked about his day-to-day work, Lamm explains that he is involved in biotechnology and specifically in bringing back extinct species and preserving all life on Earth. He clarifies that de-extinction involves restoring the core genes of extinct species to create proxy species that resemble the original ones. Lamm emphasizes that they are not cloning dead animals, but rather using the closest living relatives, such as the Asian elephant for the woolly mammoth.
Lamm describes the process of bringing a dead animal back to life, explaining that they first assemble the DNA sequences of the extinct species and compare them to the closest living relative. They identify the genes that made the extinct species unique, such as the shaggy coat and curved tusks of the mammoth. Through computational analysis and gene editing, they engineer these genes into the cells of the living relative, such as the Asian elephant. The edited cells are then cloned and implanted into a surrogate for gestation.
When asked about the source of the genomics of an extinct animal, Lamm explains that they extract ancient DNA from well-preserved specimens found in permafrost or other cold environments. Teeth and inner ear bones are particularly good sources of DNA. While the DNA is degraded, they can still obtain a high density of it, which allows for accurate sequencing and editing.
Lamm clarifies that they cannot fully bring back an exact replica of an extinct species, but rather a functional version of it. He believes that the edited Asian elephant with the core phenotypes of a mammoth can be considered a mammoth. He acknowledges that there are different perspectives on this, but their goal is to increase biodiversity and restore ecosystems.
Lamm also discusses the potential de-extinction of other species, such as the dodo bird, which serves as a symbol of man-made extinction. Bringing back the dodo would force efforts to remove invasive species that contributed to its extinction and restore the ecosystem of Mauritius. Similarly, the thylacine or Tasmanian tiger, as an apex predator, played a crucial role in balancing the ecosystem. Its reintroduction could help control the population of other species like the Tasmanian devil, which is currently affected by a facial tumor disease.
In terms of limitations, Lamm explains that the quality of the DNA is not the main limiting factor, as more samples can overcome degradation. The main challenges lie in the editing process and the rate at which editing technologies progress. They are working on editing multiple parts of the genome simultaneously and synthesizing DNA to expedite the process.
Lamm continues by highlighting the cultural significance of the mammoth and its potential impact on climate change. Mammoths were important in maintaining the balance of ecosystems and their reintroduction could help combat global warming. He also mentions other species of interest, such as the saber-toothed cat and the giant sloth, but clarifies that they are not currently working on them.
Lamm continues by explaining that Colossal is focused on using genetic engineering to bring back extinct species, starting with the woolly mammoth. He discusses the importance of preserving biodiversity and the potential benefits that de-extinction could bring to ecosystems. Lamm emphasizes that de-extinction is not just about bringing back iconic species like the dodo bird or the Tasmanian tiger, but also about studying and learning from lesser-known species that have not been extensively researched at the genetic level.
Lamm explains that Colossal is working on creating induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) from non-model organisms, such as mice and pigs, which can then be reprogrammed into any type of tissue. This technology is being used to create the most pure form of iPSCs, known as induced pluripotent stem cells, in marsupial species and is being applied to mammoths and Asian elephants as well. Lamm discusses the challenges of working with p-53, a gene associated with cancer, and the importance of understanding cellular regulation around this gene.
The conversation then shifts to the potential benefits of bringing back extinct species like the woolly mammoth. Lamm explains that mammoths can play a role in mitigating climate change by helping to lower ground temperatures in the Arctic. By removing carnivorous trees and increasing the density of cold-tolerant grasses, mammoths can create a more biodiverse environment that is more efficient at reflecting light and storing carbon. Lamm also highlights the role of elephants as natural "farmers" in ecosystems, as they help to control tree growth and promote grassland habitats.
The host raises the question of what de-extinction means for humans and whether it could be used to modify human DNA for space travel or other purposes. Lamm clarifies that Colossal is currently focused on working with mammals and not humans. However, he acknowledges that the technologies being developed by the company could have applications in human genetic engineering in the future. Lamm emphasizes the importance of ethical considerations and regulation in this field, but also highlights the potential for gene editing and gene therapies to address health issues like heart disease and diabetes.
The conversation then delves into the topic of embryo selection and genetic enhancement. Lamm discusses the ethical implications of selecting embryos based on genetic risk factors for various conditions, including mental health disorders. He argues that there is no fundamental ethical difference between embryo selection and genetic enhancement, as both involve making choices about the genetic traits of future individuals. Lamm emphasizes the need for thoughtful regulation and ethical frameworks to guide the use of genetic engineering technologies.
In conclusion, Lamm expresses his belief that de-extinction and genetic engineering have the potential to make the world a better place. He emphasizes the importance of personalized healthcare and the potential for gene editing to improve human health and well-being. Lamm acknowledges the need for careful regulation and ethical considerations in this field, but also highlights the transformative impact that these technologies could have on society.
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