The Brutal Truth About Female Attraction - Macken Murphy

This conversation with Macken Murphy dives into the complexities of female attraction and mate preferences, spanning topics such as penis size preferences, male body composition and formidability, the dynamics of sociosexual behavior and non-monogamy, as well as how societal and evolutionary pressures shape mating decisions. They dissect scientific studies, cultural observations, and evolutionary theories while addressing common misconceptions and providing nuanced insights into human mating psychology and relationship patterns.

Female Penis Size Preferences

A significant part of the discussion centered on women's preferences for penis size, based on a key study by Pruss and colleagues that employed real 3D models to overcome the inaccuracies inherent in self-report surveys. Women generally preferred lengths around 6.3 to 6.4 inches for long- and short-term relationships, and circumferences between 4.8 and 5 inches. These dimensions are somewhat larger than the average erect size of 5.16 inches but not extraordinarily rare, roughly comparable in statistical terms to a man being 6'2" tall. Men, however, tend to overestimate their size by about 20%, meaning most are actually smaller than women's stated ideals. Interestingly, many women have never experienced their ideal size, highlighting a discrepancy between ideal preferences and typical encounters.

Moreover, about 27% of women reported having ended relationships at least partly due to a partner's size, mostly when the partner was considered too small. The emotional rollercoaster for men listening is palpable, with an initial uplift on hearing the preferred size is achievable, followed by the sobering realization that most men are smaller than that ideal. Women's size preferences do not strictly align with visual or memory-based estimations but involve tactile assessments, which makes previous survey methods prone to error.

The conversation also revealed tactile and anatomical limits; women tend to have more latitude for smaller sizes than for larger ones due to discomfort or pain from penetration depth, such as impacting the cervix. The few cases involving rejection due to excessive size underscore that more is not always better. Importantly, women's ideal mate preferences often reflect flexible thresholds rather than absolute dealbreakers, with actual mate selection shaped by broader compatibility and availability.

Male Body Composition and Female Preferences

The discussion shifted to male body composition, focusing on the widely publicized transformation of Ollie M (Olly Murs) from a leaner to a more muscular, less lean physique, and the mixed reactions from men and women. Women tended to prefer the pre-transformation "dad bod" version, aligning with research suggesting that women do not favor extreme leanness. According to research using DXA scans, the ideal male body fat percentage preferred by women hovers around 13-14%, considerably higher than the circa 10% body fat level associated with stage-ready bodybuilding physiques.

The guest highlighted the evolutionary importance of formidability—traits that suggest a man could protect and provide, including adequate muscle mass and softness indicative of health and strength, over appearing overly lean, which might convey fragility or excessive mating effort. Men, influenced by bodybuilding culture, often valorize more extreme leanness and muscularity, which may signal status competition among males more than actual female attraction.

The "dad bod" archetype, therefore, could represent a physique associated with paternal investment and formidability rather than just aesthetics. Such men seem more likely to be perceived as reliable providers and protectors. The tension between mating effort and parental effort surfaces here, reflecting that men signaling too aggressively for mating may inadvertently diminish perceived suitability for long-term partnership.

Sociosexuality, Body Count, and Relationship Outcomes

The podcast delved into the concept of sociosexuality—openness to casual sex—and its impact on relationship dynamics. Research shows average "body count" (number of past sexual partners) in the U.S. is around 4-6 for women and 6 for men, but with wide individual variability shaped by socio-cultural factors. Both men and women exhibit preferences related to a partner's sexual history, but contrary to common misconception, men's preferences do not necessarily idealize virginity; rather, moderate past sexual experience is generally acceptable or even preferred, as it signals normal social and sexual functioning.

There is, however, an increased likelihood of relationship dissatisfaction, infidelity, and lower long-term success for people with very high numbers of past partners. A body count above five significantly raises the risk of infidelity, doubling it compared to those with fewer partners. This correlation likely reflects stable personality traits related to sociosexual orientation rather than a simple causal effect.

The nuances extend to the recency of sexual activity, as more recent partner changes are stronger indicators of sociosexual behavior than lifetime counts alone. The importance of viewing these metrics contextually—distinguishing between committed relationships and one-night stands—is emphasized to avoid overgeneralization.

Height, Career, and Mate Preferences

A viral social media statement claiming "men do not care about your career" sparked discussion on mate selection related to socioeconomic status and education. While men might prioritize warmth, kindness, and youth in stated preferences, actual partner selection trends indicate that highly successful men tend to pair with similarly successful women. Assortative mating on education, income, and status is well-documented.

The cultural fantasy that wealthy or high-status men settle for women with lower socioeconomic status lacks strong empirical support. Men's preferences for a partner's career and education do appear moderate but not absent; personality and kindness remain critical factors. Similarly, as men mature, their mate preferences tend to shift from surface-level attributes to qualities aligned with shared values, intellect, and mutual understanding.

Male Formidability and Social Signaling

The concept of formidability emerged as a core driver behind male attractiveness beyond simple aesthetics. Women are posited to prefer men who appear capable of protection and resource acquisition—broad shoulders, muscularity not too lean, height—that collectively signal fighting ability and social dominance.

Bodybuilding culture's emphasis on extreme leanness may conflict with these preferences as it often signals mating effort rather than parental or protective effort. Viewing attractiveness through the lens of evolved psychology helps explain why visible veins and muscle size, while appealing within male status hierarchies, do not always translate into female preference.

The importance of social status, group dynamics, and intra-sexual competition is highlighted, illustrating how men's grooming and fitness choices often serve dual functions: attracting mates and gaining standing among other men.

Intra-Sexual vs. Inter-Sexual Competition in Music and Culture

An analogy was drawn between male mating competition and cultural expression, such as the dynamics in metal guitar playing. Unlike more mainstream music forms that directly appeal to potential mates (intersexual attraction), extreme music genres serve more as intra-sexual competition among males. This pattern parallels aspects of physical displays where status is negotiated among males rather than exhibited for female preference.

Thus, certain behaviors and cultural expressions—whether body modifications, music taste, or fitness routines—may function more as in-group signaling that indirectly affects mating success.

The Dynamics of Non-Monogamy and Sexual Jealousy

The conversation analyzed the asymmetrical costs and benefits of non-monogamy for men and women. Men generally have higher sociosexuality, seeking more sexual variety, but are also more emotionally distressed by a partner's sexual infidelity, particularly with other men. Women tend to be more concerned with emotional infidelity, experiencing greater distress if a partner forms emotional attachments outside the relationship.

This asymmetry is tied to evolutionary pressures: men face the risk of cuckoldry, making sexual exclusivity a substantial concern, while women are more focused on resource investment and emotional commitment. The challenge of matching desire for extra-pair mating and jealousy levels between partners was highlighted as central to the success or failure of non-monogamous arrangements.

Polyamory, particularly labeled and public polyamory, was noted to come with psychological costs for many men, with some expressing years-long adjustment periods to manage the emotional implications.

Changing Socioeconomic Patterns and Hyperandry

Macken discussed recent trends where the bottom 40% of men are increasingly pairing with women in the top 20% economically, representing a reversal of traditional hypergamy (women marrying "up"). This "status reversal" or "hyperandry" reflects broader societal changes due to women's tremendous economic and social gains over recent decades.

This shift has introduced cultural tensions, relationship dissatisfaction, and sometimes increased domestic conflict in such pairings. However, it appears to be an adaptive response to the socio-economic environment rather than a shift in deep-seated mate preferences. The process includes strategic, cultural, and potentially long-term evolutionary adaptations to new provisioning patterns where biparental investment, rather than solely male provisioning, is the norm.

Obesity, Attractiveness, and Relationship Trends

The interplay between rising obesity rates and declining coupling and birth rates was explored. While obesity negatively affects numerous physiological and psychological factors related to mating and reproduction, it is unclear if these health effects are a primary driver of decreased relationship formation.

Importantly, relationship formation and sexual activity trends are complex and influenced by numerous social and individual variables beyond physical attractiveness. Nonetheless, attractiveness remains a robust predictor of relationship success and mating outcomes, with more attractive individuals generally facing fewer challenges but also experiencing unique pressures, such as optionality distress and mate guarding.

Mate Value Disparities and Relationship Challenges

Disparities in physical attractiveness or socioeconomic status between partners can lead to relationship tensions, including shifts from benefit-affording dynamics to cost-inflicting behaviors like jealousy, control, or aggression. Men not being primary breadwinners is linked to increased erectile dysfunction medication usage, highlighting psychophysiological impacts of mate value discrepancies.

Additionally, high mate value individuals often afford more resources and attention to partners but also contend with greater opportunity costs, influencing relationship satisfaction and stability.

Homosexuality and the "Rich Gay Uncle" Hypothesis

Finally, the conversation touched on the evolutionary puzzle of homosexuality's persistence despite reduced direct reproduction. The "rich gay uncle" hypothesis suggests that homosexual men may increase inclusive fitness by investing resources in nieces and nephews, compensating for not having their own offspring. This kin selection model finds some empirical support in the anthropology of Samoa's Fafine group, where a third gender category occupies an established social niche with alloparenting roles.

However, this hypothesis is weakly supported in Western contexts, indicating that cultural scaffolding plays a significant role in shaping the evolutionary dynamics of sexual orientation. The birth order effect—higher incidence of male homosexuality among later-born sons—is tied to maternal immune responses, possibly serving as an adaptive maternal strategy rather than a direct genetic adaptation in sons.

The discussion concluded recognizing the complexity and multifactorial nature of these issues, with no definitive answers but keen insights from evolutionary biology, psychology, and cultural anthropology.