Vejas Liulevicius: Communism, Marxism, Nazism, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler | Lex Fridman Podcast #444

Added: Sep 21, 2024

Marxism: Foundations of Communism

Liulevicius delves into the central ideas of Karl Marx, which laid the groundwork for communism. Marx viewed history as purposeful and directed, moving toward a predetermined goal of human liberation. This perspective starkly contrasts with earlier socialist thinkers, whom Marx considered utopian. His belief in a scientific approach to revolution, coupled with the notion that individual heroes could influence history, rendered his ideas particularly compelling.

Marx categorized history into stages driven by class struggles: primitive communism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism, and ultimately socialism. He posited that the proletariat would rise against the bourgeoisie, leading to a dictatorship of the working class and the eventual abolition of all classes. However, Liulevicius notes that Marx's vision contained utopian elements, especially in his descriptions of a post-revolutionary society free from exploitation and necessity.

The contradictions within Marxism are also significant. There exists a tension between the collective nature of history and the role of individual leaders. Marx's ideas were heavily influenced by Hegelian philosophy, which suggested that history has a purpose driven by the unfolding of ideas. However, Marx inverted this notion, focusing instead on material conditions and class conflict.

Anarchism: A Decentralized Vision

The conversation transitions to anarchism, particularly the ideas of Russian anarchist Mikhail Bakunin, who opposed Marx's hierarchical approach to revolution. Bakunin advocated for a decentralized, non-hierarchical organization of society and rejected the state as a form of organized violence. He believed that the passion for destruction could also serve as a creative force, leading to tensions between anarchists and Marxists.

Liulevicius points out that anarchism has not been rigorously tested in the same way as communism, largely due to anarchists' lack of organizational structure compared to their Marxist counterparts. While anarchists envision a society free from hierarchies, their methods often lead to conflict with more organized revolutionary movements, resulting in their marginalization.

The Communist Manifesto vs. Das Kapital

Liulevicius contrasts "The Communist Manifesto" with Marx's more extensive work, "Das Kapital." The manifesto is a brief yet impactful pamphlet that calls for revolution and outlines the historical role of the proletariat. It gained significance after the revolutions of 1848, becoming a rallying cry for workers worldwide. In contrast, "Das Kapital" is a detailed economic analysis that Marx worked on for years, aiming to provide a scientific foundation for his theories.

Marx's economic theories are intertwined with his political ideology, as he believed that understanding economic realities necessitated political action. However, historical developments, such as Lenin's New Economic Policy, demonstrated a divergence between Marxist theory and practice, as leaders adapted Marxist ideas to local conditions.

The Rise of Communism in the Soviet Union

The discussion then focuses on the rise of communism in the Soviet Union, particularly how Lenin capitalized on the power vacuum created by World War I. Lenin's leadership was marked by a willingness to make harsh decisions, such as signing the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, which ceded significant territory to Germany. He believed that the revolution would inspire global uprisings, but when that did not happen, the Bolsheviks had to consolidate power within Russia.

Liulevicius discusses the role of the secret police, initially established under Lenin, in maintaining control and suppressing dissent. The Cheka, led by Felix Dzerzhinsky, became a tool for terror and repression, laying the groundwork for Stalin's later purges. The podcast highlights how Stalin, initially perceived as a moderate, used his organizational skills to outmaneuver rivals like Trotsky, ultimately consolidating power through a combination of political maneuvering and violence.

The Power Struggle: Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin

Liulevicius describes the power struggle between Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin following Lenin's declining health. Trotsky, a charismatic leader advocating for permanent revolution, was increasingly sidelined by Stalin, who presented himself as a pragmatic moderate. Stalin's rise to power involved purging rivals and using propaganda to create a cult of personality around himself.

The discussion emphasizes that Stalin's brutality was often masked by his moderate image, and he utilized the secret police to instill fear and maintain control. Liulevicius suggests that Stalin's beliefs may have been a blend of ideology and pragmatism, where the pursuit of power and the ideological goals of communism became intertwined.

Catastrophic Policies: Collectivization and the Great Terror

Stalin's policies, particularly the collectivization of agriculture, are discussed as catastrophic failures, especially during the 1930s in Ukraine, leading to the Holodomor, a man-made famine. The Bolsheviks, and communists in general, had a conflicted relationship with agriculture, viewing it as traditional and backward compared to the progress of industrialization. Marx's vision marginalized the role of peasants, who historically desired autonomy over their land.

Stalin's regime aimed to modernize Russia rapidly, prioritizing industrialization over agricultural needs. Collectivization was intended to control food production and prevent crises like those experienced during the Civil War. However, it resulted in immense human suffering, as farmers lost their land and incentives to produce, leading to widespread famine.

Liulevicius highlights that collectivization was not merely a bureaucratic failure but a deliberate strategy that targeted successful farmers, labeling them as "kulaks" and punishing them. This created a culture of fear and dishonesty, where farmers lied about their production to avoid punishment. The state’s extraction of resources led to starvation, and the regime's inability to manage agricultural production persisted, with the Soviet Union ultimately relying on grain imports despite having fertile land.

The Great Terror (1936-1938) is characterized as a period of mass repression, where Stalin targeted not only political rivals but also ordinary citizens, leading to the execution and imprisonment of hundreds of thousands. The atmosphere of fear paralyzed society, with neighbors denouncing each other to avoid suspicion. The terror was fueled by quotas for arrests and executions, creating a cycle of paranoia and violence. The discussion emphasizes the psychological impact of the terror, where even loyal party members were not safe, and the regime's brutality led to a breakdown of trust within society.

Totalitarianism and Historical Context

Totalitarianism is examined through the lens of Hannah Arendt's model, which posits that both Nazi Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union shared characteristics of totalitarian regimes, such as the ambition for total control over society. This ambition, combined with the historical context of war and revolution, created conditions for extreme repression and violence. The conversation notes that while totalitarian regimes may not achieve complete control, their aspirations for such power lead to significant human rights violations.

The Role of Churchill and the Nazi-Soviet Pact

In response to claims made by historian Darryl Cooper, Liulevicius argues against the notion that Churchill was the chief villain of World War II. The assertion that Churchill forced Hitler to expand the war is dismissed as a misunderstanding of Nazi ideology, which aimed for world domination regardless of external pressures. The mass murder of Jews and other groups was not an accident but a systematic part of Nazi policy, rooted in their racial ideology. The discussion highlights the premeditated nature of the Holocaust and the broader genocidal plans for Eastern Europe, which were integral to Nazi ambitions.

The conversation also addresses the potential outcomes had the Communists won in Germany instead of the Nazis. While the German Communist Party had ambitions to seize power, the historical context and internal divisions made this unlikely. The failure of the left to unite against the Nazis contributed to their rise. Liulevicius speculates that a Communist victory would have led to a different trajectory for Germany, but the complexities of the political landscape at the time make it difficult to predict.

Mao Zedong: Adapting Marxism to China

The discussion shifts to Mao Zedong's rise to power in China and his adaptation of Marxist ideology to fit the Chinese context. Mao's focus on the peasantry as the driving force of revolution marked a significant departure from traditional Marxist thought, which prioritized the industrial working class. Mao's relationship with Stalin was complex, characterized by both admiration and rivalry. After Stalin's death, Mao sought to position himself as a leader of the international communist movement, leading to disastrous policies like the Great Leap Forward, which aimed to surpass Stalin's achievements but resulted in immense suffering and loss of life.

Mao's leadership is characterized by a series of ambitious yet disastrous policies, most notably the Great Leap Forward, which aimed to rapidly industrialize the nation through collectivization and the establishment of large communes. This initiative, inspired by Stalin's industrialization efforts in the Soviet Union, resulted in catastrophic outcomes, including the deaths of approximately 40 million people due to starvation and violence. The Great Leap Forward involved creating small smelting furnaces in rural areas and merging farming territories into vast communes, which were believed to be more efficient. However, these policies led to environmental degradation and agricultural failures, exacerbated by misguided Soviet agricultural techniques promoted by Trofim Lysenko.

The Hundred Flowers Campaign followed the Great Leap Forward, where Mao sought to regain prestige by encouraging intellectuals to share their ideas and criticisms. However, this initiative turned into a purge, as those who spoke out were ruthlessly punished, leading to a culture of fear and censorship. This pattern of negative selection stifled creativity and innovation within the party, mirroring the experiences of the Soviet Union. Mao's belief in the malleability of human nature, viewing people as "blank slates," contributed to the failure of his policies, as they did not account for the complexities of human behavior and the diverse realities of China's vast population.

The Legacy of Mao and the Chinese Communist Party

After Mao's death in 1976, the Chinese Communist Party acknowledged his mixed legacy, claiming he was 70% correct in his policies. The party shifted towards economic reforms under Deng Xiaoping, opening China to global markets while maintaining political control. This transition led to significant economic growth and a transformation of Chinese society, raising questions about the nature of contemporary China and its communist identity. The current leadership under Xi Jinping has seen a resurgence of Maoist nostalgia, complicating the narrative of China's evolution.

North Korea: A Unique Case

In contrast, North Korea presents a unique case of a regime that claims to be communist while functioning as a dynastic monarchy. The historical context of North Korea's establishment and its ongoing isolation complicates the analysis of its political and economic systems. The regime's reliance on military strength and its historical ties to the Soviet Union shape its interactions with the world, making it a challenging subject for analysis.

The Evolution of Communism in the United States

In the United States, the evolution of the Communist Party reflects the complexities of American socialism. Initially associated with immigrant communities, the party struggled to gain traction among American workers. Earl Browder's leadership attempted to reframe communism as a form of Americanism, but his vision ultimately clashed with the realities of the Cold War. The association of American communists with Soviet espionage further undermined their credibility, especially during the Red Scares. The Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939 forced American communists to shift their rhetoric dramatically, leading to disillusionment among many members.

The Post-Soviet Landscape and Contemporary Russia

The discussion then shifts to the post-Soviet landscape in Russia, where the lack of a thorough historical reckoning has hindered the country's ability to confront its past. The transition from Yeltsin to Putin saw a revival of nationalist sentiments, with Putin selectively rehabilitating historical figures like Stalin while vilifying Lenin. This complex historical narrative has shaped contemporary Russian identity and its aggressive foreign policy, particularly regarding Ukraine.

The invasion of Ukraine in 2022 revealed a miscalculation on Putin's part, as the expected division within Ukraine did not materialize, leading to a strong and unified resistance. The conversation highlights the challenges of achieving peace in Ukraine, given the deep-seated animosities and the historical context of territorial integrity in Europe. The potential for future conflicts looms large, as the violation of post-World War II norms regarding territorial conquest sets a dangerous precedent.

Advice for Young People: The Importance of Reading

Liulevicius emphasizes the importance of reading as a fundamental activity for personal growth and understanding. He expresses concern about the trend in education where students are reading less, often due to the prevalence of digital snippets and summaries rather than engaging with full texts. He argues that the experience of reading a book is irreplaceable, as it allows individuals to immerse themselves in the author's thoughts and ideas, fostering empathy and a broader understanding of human experiences.

Liulevicius warns that without this deep engagement with literature, people may become susceptible to manipulation and misinformation, particularly in an age where artificial intelligence can distort reality. He advocates for a renaissance in reading, highlighting that the journey of engaging with a text is as important as the information it conveys.

Book Recommendations: Literary Influences

Liulevicius shares his personal literary influences, starting with his childhood experience of watching the film adaptation of "Doctor Zhivago," which led him to read the novel by Boris Pasternak. He reflects on the emotional impact of the story, which captures themes of tragedy and human resilience. He also recommends the works of Canadian author Robertson Davies, particularly the "Deptford Trilogy," which includes "Fifth Business," "The Manticore," and "World of Wonders." He describes Davies's writing as a blend of magical realism and psychological depth, influenced by Carl Jung's philosophy.

Liulevicius appreciates how Davies's novels explore the complexities of human nature and the richness of Canadian and European experiences, suggesting that they are masterful works deserving of more attention.

Hope for the Future of Humanity

In discussing hope for the future of humanity, Liulevicius reflects on the resilience and endurance of people throughout history. He acknowledges the darker aspects of human nature but finds optimism in the variety of human responses to adversity. He cites numerous historical examples of recovery and rebuilding after crises, emphasizing that the human spirit has an inexhaustible capacity for renewal.

Liulevicius also touches on the concept of cultural appropriation, arguing that the exchange of ideas and influences across cultures is a fundamental aspect of human history. He believes that this curiosity and willingness to learn from one another can lead to a brighter future, even in the face of challenges. Ultimately, he expresses confidence in humanity's ability to rise again, drawing on the lessons of the past to forge a better path forward.