Neri Oxman: Biology, Art, and Science of Design & Engineering with Nature | Lex Fridman Podcast #394

Added: Sep 4, 2023

Simultaneous Complexity in New Projects

Oxman discusses the importance of simultaneous complexity in new projects. She believes that for a project to be truly innovative, it must incorporate elements of complexity from various disciplines such as synthetic biology, material science, robotics, and computational design. By combining novelty in these different fields, Oxman argues that one can create something truly novel and groundbreaking.

Novelty in Synthetic Biology, Material Science, Robotics, and Computational Design

Oxman emphasizes the need for novelty in each of these disciplines in order to create innovative projects. She believes that by pushing the boundaries of synthetic biology, material science, robotics, and computational design, one can create products and designs that have never been seen before. This requires a deep understanding of each discipline and the ability to combine them in unique and creative ways.

Collaboration between Humans and Nature

Oxman believes that there is an intricate connection between humans and nature. She argues that throughout history, humans have created products and designs that have separated them from nature. However, she believes that it is possible to bring the tools of engineering and computation back to nature in order to create a synergy between the two. By working with nature rather than against it, Oxman believes that humans can create designs and products that are more sustainable and in harmony with the natural world.

Empowering Nature through Technology

Oxman and her team at Oxman are working on a project called "Oxman" that aims to revolutionize how humans design and build products by working with nature. They are developing technologies that empower nature to build better crops, increase biodiversity, and heal itself. By providing nature with access to computational tools and technology, Oxman believes that nature can make decisions for itself and work towards its own betterment.

Growing Products from CO2

One of the key focuses of Oxman's work is to grow products from CO2. They are developing carbon recycling technologies that start with methane or wastewater and end with a product that can be thrown into the ground and grow into an edible fruit plant. This approach aims to create products that are biodegradable, biocompatible, and renewable, reducing the reliance on traditional manufacturing processes that harm the environment.

Creating Biodegradable and Biocompatible Products

Oxman's team is working on creating the world's first entirely biodegradable, biocompatible, and renewable products. They are exploring the use of plant matter, bacteria, and carbon recycling technologies to create products that can be grown rather than built. The goal is to create products that have a positive impact on the environment and can be easily recycled back into the natural world.

Designing with Organisms like Silkworms and Bees

Oxman has worked extensively with organisms like silkworms and bees to create innovative designs. For example, she has used silkworms to create pavilions made of silk, where the silkworms spin their cocoons on water-soluble meshes. She has also created a synthetic apiary for bees, providing them with a controlled environment to thrive in urban areas. By working with these organisms, Oxman aims to learn from their natural processes and incorporate them into her designs.

The Concept of Emergence and Agency in Biological Systems

Oxman explores the concept of emergence and agency in biological systems. She believes that by providing organisms with computational tools and technology, they can assume agency and make decisions for themselves. This allows for the emergence of new behaviors and capabilities that were not previously possible. By understanding and harnessing this emergent behavior, Oxman aims to create designs and products that are more in tune with the natural world.

The Potential of Hybrid Living Materials

Oxman's team has developed a new class of materials called hybrid living materials (HLMs). These materials combine living organisms, such as bacteria, with synthetic materials to create unique properties and functionalities. By templating bacteria at a fine resolution, they can create materials with specific patterns and behaviors. The potential applications for HLMs are vast, ranging from architecture to fashion to healthcare.

Ethics and Genetic Modification of Organisms

Oxman discusses the ethical considerations of genetic modification of organisms. While she is open to using genetic modification in certain cases, such as creating glow-in-the-dark silk, she believes that it is important to consider the well-being of the organisms involved. She emphasizes the need to work with organisms in a way that benefits both humans and nature, rather than exploiting them for human-centric purposes. Oxman believes in the importance of responsible and ethical design practices when working with living organisms.

Silk Road and the Evolution of Life

Oxman discusses the Silk Road and its significance in the evolution of life. She reflects on the journey that humanity has taken over the past four thousand years and questions why we have reached this point. She emphasizes the importance of not evolving life solely for the service of mankind, but also considering the well-being of other creatures across the kingdoms of life.

Oxman raises ethical concerns about evolving life solely for the benefit of mankind. She believes that we should not risk the well-being of other creatures in order to serve our own needs. She emphasizes the need for a broader ethical range when considering the impact of our actions on different organisms, including bacteria.

The Importance and Wonder of Bacteria

Oxman expresses her admiration for bacteria and their role in the natural world. She acknowledges that bacteria have been present for billions of years and have played a crucial role in creating the matter that sustains life. She believes that bacteria deserve recognition and appreciation for their contributions to the ecosystem.

Oxman discusses the concept of high throughput directed evolution of bacteria. She explains that this involves using computational methods to guide the evolution of bacteria in the lab. This approach allows for the production of various products, such as wearables, biomaterials, and therapeutics. Oxman highlights the exciting advancements happening in the field of directed evolution and its potential applications.

Designing Capsules for Environmental Control and Genetic Regulation

Oxman describes the design of capsules that can control environmental factors such as light, humidity, and temperature while also regulating genetic processes. These capsules serve as growth chambers or grow rooms for organisms. They provide a controlled environment for genetic modulation and environmental templating. Oxman explains that these capsules are part of a larger lab project and are currently under construction.

Oxman discusses the idea of stressing environments within the capsules to produce the food, products, and construction materials of the future. She explains that by creating a biodiversity chamber, researchers can program specific temperature, humidity, and light conditions to emulate past environments. This allows for the study of how organisms behave under different stressors and the potential development of new materials and products.

The Role of Imperfection in Beauty

Oxman reflects on the concept of imperfection in beauty. She believes that imperfection is necessary for something to be beautiful. Imperfection signifies that an object or organism is part of a larger system and is on a journey of growth and change. Oxman appreciates imperfection as it allows for creativity and novelty.

Oxman discusses the connection between flaws, vulnerability, and love. She believes that flaws and vulnerabilities in humans create a sense of connection and intimacy. These imperfections allow individuals to be open and authentic with one another, fostering deeper relationships. Oxman sees flaws as a sign of vulnerability, which is essential for love to flourish.

The Importance of Embracing Frustration and Rebooting

Oxman emphasizes the importance of embracing frustration and seeing it as an opportunity for growth. She believes that frustration is a sign that one is pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo. Oxman encourages individuals to embrace frustration and find gratitude in the ability to experience it. She sees frustration as a catalyst for creativity and innovation.

The Significance of Cherishing and Noticing the Magic in Life

Oxman discusses the importance of cherishing and noticing the magic in life. She believes that by paying attention to the simple moments and finding gratitude in them, individuals can experience a deeper sense of connection and joy. Oxman encourages individuals to pause and appreciate the beauty and wonder that surrounds them.

The Role of Fire and Light in Human Experience

Oxman reflects on the role of fire and light in human experience. She sees fire as the first technology that brought communities together and provided warmth and comfort. Fire also holds a spiritual significance and can create meditative moments. Oxman believes that light plays a crucial role in accessing higher levels of awareness and connecting with others.

The Loneliness and Longing in Human Existence

Oxman acknowledges the presence of loneliness and longing in human existence. She believes that loneliness is a fundamental part of being human and can lead to a sense of longing for connection. Oxman sees loneliness as a catalyst for vulnerability and the formation of meaningful relationships. She believes that loneliness and longing are essential for building civilizations and fostering a sense of community.

Creative solitude

Oxman believes that creative solitude is essential for this process, as it allows individuals to focus on their own thoughts and desires. By embracing creative solitude, one can find the balance between who they are and who they want to be.

Oxman describes her creative process as one that involves losing focus while simultaneously focusing on the peripheral view. She enjoys listening to music, reading nature papers, and revisiting timeless texts during her moments of creative solitude. She believes that the creative process involves bringing together timeless problems or concepts with timely technologies to observe and understand the world. Oxman gives examples of her projects, such as the Mandela Pavilion and the glass work project, where she combines different elements to create something novel and meaningful.

Bringing Timeless Problems or Concepts Together with Timely Technologies

Oxman emphasizes the importance of combining timeless problems or concepts with timely technologies. She believes that by bringing together different disciplines, such as synthetic biology, material science, robotics, and computational design, one can create something truly novel. Oxman runs her company based on this principle and seeks individuals who have expertise in multiple disciplines. She believes that by combining novelty in different fields, one can create something truly groundbreaking.

Oxman discusses the interplay between machine learning and nature in her work. She believes that artificial general intelligence (AGI) has the potential to connect with nature and unlock the incredible intelligence and wisdom that exists in the natural world. Oxman is both hopeful and terrified about the possibilities of AGI, as she recognizes the potential dangers it poses to humanity. However, she also sees the potential for AGI to bring new insights and perspectives to the world.

The Role of Music in Life

Oxman expresses her love for music and its profound impact on human emotions. She believes that music has the power to make people cry and connect on a deep level. Oxman finds it fascinating that music can evoke such strong emotions and wonders why other forms of art, such as architecture and painting, do not have the same effect. She believes that music is the universal language and that it has a unique ability to touch people's souls.