Andrew Callaghan: Channel 5, Gonzo, QAnon, O-Block, Politics & Alex Jones | Lex Fridman Podcast #425

Added: Apr 14, 2024

Early Interest in Journalism

Callaghan's interest in journalism was sparked in ninth grade when he had an inspiring teacher named Calvin Shaw. He was allowed to leave school to conduct interviews and write stories, which he found more engaging than traditional classroom learning. His first article was about the Deep Web and a conversation with a supposed hitman from the hidden wiki.

Struggles with HPPD

Callaghan developed Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) after taking psilocybin mushrooms in eighth grade. This condition causes persistent visual disturbances like visual snow, floaters, and morphing objects. He also experienced depersonalization and derealization, feeling disconnected from reality and his own body. Despite these challenges, Callaghan found solace in journalism as a way to navigate his symptoms.

Exploring Extreme Realities

Callaghan's fascination with extreme subcultures and fringe individuals stems from his desire to immerse himself in different realities. He views journalism as a ticket to experience history as it unfolds and to provide exposure to those who may not have a voice otherwise. His interviews with unconventional subjects reflect his interest in exploring the depths of humanity.

Influence of Hunter S. Thompson

Callaghan draws inspiration from figures like Hunter S. Thompson, known for his unconventional approach to journalism. While he admires Thompson's work, he also values other influences like the early Daily Show, Sacha Baron Cohen, and Louis Theroux. He appreciates the balance between Gonzo reporting and traditional storytelling in Thompson's work.

Challenges of Addiction

Callaghan reflects on his past struggles with alcohol abuse as a coping mechanism for his HPPD symptoms. He acknowledges the allure of substances in enhancing creativity but emphasizes that true creativity exists beyond the influence of drugs or alcohol. Over time, he has learned to separate his creative pursuits from substance use.

Hitchhiking Across the US

At 19, Callaghan embarked on a 70-day hitchhiking journey across the United States. Inspired by hobo literature and a desire for adventure, he left behind his belongings and set out with no money. His route took him through various states, encountering diverse individuals and experiencing the freedom of the open road. Despite the challenges of hitchhiking, Callaghan found solace in the spontaneity and unpredictability of the journey.

Callaghan describes his hitchhiking journey as a way to challenge himself and break free from the patterns he had fallen into. He emphasizes that every decision he made during the journey was voluntary and aimed at maintaining his stability and mental health. Despite owning very few material possessions, he values a watch given to him by Joe Rogan as a symbol of their friendship.

During his hitchhiking adventure, Callaghan had a memorable experience of being mistaken for a gay prostitute by a man from Honduras. Despite the awkward situation, he handled it calmly and continued his journey to Houston. He also shares his encounters with various individuals, including those working on seasonal visas and struggling with addiction, who showed kindness and willingness to help him along the way.

Space Madness and Existential Exploration

Callaghan expresses interest in researching space madness, a psychological phenomenon experienced by astronauts when confronted with the vastness of space. He contemplates the existential implications of gazing into the abyss and the feelings of insignificance it may evoke. His curiosity about the human psyche in extreme environments reflects his ongoing exploration of unconventional topics.

Working on Bourbon Street

Callaghan worked as a doorman at a fine dining restaurant on Bourbon Street, known for its chaotic and lively atmosphere. He recalls witnessing bizarre and sometimes disturbing scenes, such as a naked man wearing a Batman mask and jerking off in public. Despite the wild nature of Bourbon Street, he had to maintain a professional demeanor while serving customers and avoid getting distracted by the street's activities.

He also shares his experience of living in the French Quarter and walking through the chaotic Bourbon Street after work. Callaghan and a friend attempted to create a video series called "Quarter Confessions," where they asked people to confess their deepest, darkest secrets. However, the project took a dark turn as many individuals confessed to disturbing acts, leading Callaghan to reconsider the ethical implications of the content.

Reflections on Homelessness

Callaghan discusses his involvement in a documentary about homelessness in Las Vegas, where he attempted to help individuals obtain identification documents to access services. Despite his efforts, he realized that deeper underlying traumas and shame often prevent homeless individuals from reintegrating into society. He acknowledges the complexity of homelessness and the need for a more holistic approach that addresses mental health, trauma, and self-worth.

All Gas No Brakes

Callaghan discusses his journey to becoming a documentary filmmaker and the creator of the popular show "All Gas No Brakes." He talks about how he got the opportunity to produce the show after being contacted by a media company called Doing Things Media. The show was inspired by a book he wrote called "All Gas No Breaks: A Hitchhiker Diary" and aimed to combine the road dog ethos of the book with the editing style of his previous work, "Quarter Confessions."

Callaghan shares his experiences traveling across the country in an RV, covering events like Burning Man, Talladega race weekend, and a Donald Trump Jr. book signing. He also talks about visiting a Juggalo adjacent fetish mansion in Central Florida called the Sausage Castle. Despite facing challenges with copyright strikes and legal issues, Callaghan is determined to fight back against mainstream media conglomerates to protect smaller creators.

Covering the George Floyd Protests

As the COVID-19 pandemic hits and the country shuts down, Callaghan finds himself at a crossroads. He grapples with the idea of transitioning from a comedic reporter to a more serious journalist. When the George Floyd protests erupt, he decides to go to Minneapolis to cover the events, despite initial doubts about his ability to handle such a serious topic.

During his time in Minneapolis, Callaghan witnesses the intensity of the protests and the division among different groups of protesters. He captures powerful moments, including interactions with individuals expressing their frustrations and motivations for participating in the protests. Despite facing challenges and even getting shot in the ass by a rubber bullet, his coverage of the protests is well-received and marks a turning point in his career.

The Role of Humor

Callaghan reflects on the role of humor in his work and draws comparisons to figures like Jon Stewart, who he admires for their ability to speak truth to power. He discusses the impact of political polarization and the need for genuine, independent voices in media. Callaghan acknowledges the challenges of navigating the media landscape but remains committed to creating meaningful and impactful content.

Fame and Anonymity

Callaghan shares his experience of fame, mentioning how it initially brought him a sense of acceptance and love from fans. However, he also discusses the downside of fame, such as the loss of anonymity and the need to seek out more obscure environments to maintain privacy. He expresses a desire to live in a remote location to regain a sense of anonymity and curiosity.

This Place Rules

Callaghan delves into the details of the HBO project, a movie titled "This Place Rules," which explores the aftermath of the 2020 election and the events surrounding January 6th. He highlights the portrayal of extreme ideologies and the impact of conspiracy theories like QAnon on individuals and families. He reflects on the role of media in perpetuating division and sensationalism.

Callaghan shares his experience of interacting with Alex Jones during the filming of the movie. He discusses the backlash he faced for including Alex Jones in the project and the challenges of navigating media interviews and press tours. He reflects on the dynamics of platforming controversial figures and the consequences of engaging with polarizing ideologies.

Media Training and Press Tour

Callaghan recounts a tense interview on CNN where he challenged the host on the role of media in fueling division. He describes the repercussions of his candid responses, including the cancellation of his press tour. He reflects on the interconnectedness of media conglomerates and the constraints of navigating corporate interests in the entertainment industry.

Callaghan describes the excitement and anxiety leading up to the release date and the positive experience of working with the team. Despite facing backlash for including controversial figures like Alex Jones in the film, Callaghan stands by his artistic choices and the narrative he presented.

Political Leanings

When asked about his political leanings, Callaghan expresses a nuanced perspective. He mentions leaning towards the empathetic side, which aligns more with the left, but also values free speech and a free internet, which are often associated with conservative views. He emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and avoiding being swayed by extreme ideologies.

Migrant Situation

Callaghan reflects on his experience visiting the border and interacting with migrants. He highlights the desperation and hope that many migrants have for a better life in America. He acknowledges the challenges and complexities of immigration issues, noting the contrast between the comfort of Americans and the extreme poverty faced by many around the world.

Controversy and Accountability

Callaghan addresses a personal controversy where he was accused of pressuring someone into a consensual encounter. He shares the timeline of events, including receiving a text message demanding money for therapy bills and facing public accusations. Despite the difficult situation, he takes accountability for his actions and expresses a desire to learn from the experience and prevent similar situations in the future.

Channel 5

Callaghan talks about the origins of Channel 5, which began during his time working on All Gas No Brakes. He explains how the name Channel 5 was used as a tactic to deter disruptive individuals during filming.

He discusses his interviewing style, which has evolved to be more directed but still retains elements of deadpan humor. Callaghan also talks about the editing style of Channel 5, which includes crash zooms and comedic timing to enhance the storytelling. He mentions his goal of humanizing individuals in his interviews and introducing more solution-oriented journalism to provide tangible ways for viewers to help.

Exploring Different Topics

Callaghan reflects on his experiences covering various topics, including the Philadelphia streets, the Occupy Seattle protests, and a UFO convention. He shares insights from his interviews with ufologists and the importance of preserving endangered languages in the US. He also delves into his time at the border, where he was detained by border patrol, highlighting the challenges and fears he faced during that experience.

Views on Humanity and Healing Misunderstandings

When asked about his views on humanity, Callaghan expresses his belief that most people are inherently good and motivated by positive intentions. He emphasizes the importance of listening to others to heal misunderstandings between people. He advocates for keeping an open heart and mind when engaging with individuals who hold different beliefs, as a way to bridge divides and foster understanding.