DEI, Gender & the Military | J.O. Michel Maisonneuve, Barbara Maisonneuve, & Mark Norman | EP 468

Added: Aug 2, 2024

In this podcast, Jordan Peterson discusses the current state of the Canadian military with three retired military officers: Mark Norman from the Navy, Michel Maisonneuve from the Army, and Barbara Maisonneuve from the Air Force. The conversation covers a range of issues facing the Canadian Armed Forces, including personnel shortages, equipment problems, morale issues, and the impact of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives.

The Crisis in the Canadian Military

Mark Norman describes the current situation in the Canadian Armed Forces as a crisis with multiple dimensions. He outlines several key challenges, including a lack of public understanding about the necessity of the military, a rapidly eroding global security situation, chronic underfunding and lack of support, and human resources problems in both quantity and quality of personnel. Norman also mentions issues with equipment procurement and maintenance, as well as concerns about the credibility of the institution on an international level.

The discussion touches on Canada's reliance on the United States for defense and the potential consequences of not pulling its weight in military matters. The panelists agree that Canada's international reputation has been severely damaged by the current government's approach to defense and security issues. They emphasize that the military serves as a diplomatic tool and a means for Canada to demonstrate its involvement on the global stage.

Michel Maisonneuve adds that Canada is currently "undefended" and that the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) agreement took too long to be upgraded. He stresses the importance of having a range of military capabilities to protect the country and participate in international alliances.

Recruitment and Retention Challenges

The podcast reveals that the Canadian military is currently short about 16,000 personnel out of a total force of around 100,000. This 15% shortfall renders the armed forces non-combat capable by wartime standards. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that many of the missing personnel are from the experienced core of warrant officers, sergeants, lieutenants, and captains – positions that take years to develop.

The panelists discuss the difficulties in recruiting and retaining personnel, particularly in specialized roles like fighter pilots. They attribute some of these challenges to the implementation of DEI initiatives, which they argue have prioritized meeting quotas over selecting the most qualified candidates. Barbara Maisonneuve expresses concern that targeting specific demographic groups for recruitment may be causing qualified candidates to be overlooked.

The Impact of DEI Initiatives

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the impact of DEI initiatives on the Canadian military. The panelists express skepticism about the emphasis placed on addressing sexual misconduct and changing the military's culture, arguing that these efforts may be misguided and based on flawed assumptions about the prevalence of such issues in the armed forces.

Peterson questions whether sexual misconduct is more prevalent in the military than in other institutions, such as universities. He suggests that the military's tendency to recruit highly conscientious individuals might actually result in lower rates of misconduct compared to the general population.

The discussion touches on the creation of a new command focused on culture and personal conduct, with a budget of $500 million over five years. The panelists argue that this money could have been better spent on addressing other pressing needs within the military.

Leadership and Morale

The podcast highlights concerns about morale within the Canadian Armed Forces. The panelists cite reports from the Canadian Chaplain General indicating that morale is "shot." They attribute this to a lack of public support, insufficient signals from political leadership about the importance of military service, and a perceived failure of senior military leaders to push back against government-imposed initiatives that may be detrimental to the institution.

The conversation touches on the recent appointment of General Jennie Carignan as the Chief of the Defence Staff, with the panelists expressing cautious optimism about her leadership potential. However, they also raise concerns about whether she will be given the mandate, authority, and resources necessary to address the military's current challenges.

The Role of Women in the Military

Barbara Maisonneuve, who joined the military in the early 1980s, shares her experiences as one of the first women in the military police. She argues that while there may be instances of sexual misconduct in the military, it was not as prevalent or systemic as some recent narratives suggest. The panelists discuss the challenges and opportunities for women in the military, with Barbara encouraging young women to consider military service.

The conversation also touches on the differences between men and women in terms of interests and occupational choices. Peterson presents research suggesting that in more egalitarian societies, occupational differences between men and women tend to increase rather than decrease, challenging the assumption that equal representation should be the goal in all fields.

International Security and Canada's Role

The panelists emphasize the importance of Canada's military in contributing to global security and maintaining the country's way of life. They argue that Canada's inability to make meaningful contributions to international security systems puts the country at risk, as it relies heavily on these systems for its prosperity and stability.

Mark Norman stresses that while the probability of a direct military attack on Canada may be low, other powers are likely to use military capability to influence events around the world that affect Canada's national interests. He argues that Canadians need to understand the fragility of their privileged position and the importance of contributing to global security.

Recommendations and Call to Action

The panelists offer several recommendations for addressing the challenges facing the Canadian military:

1. Increased funding and support for the armed forces

2. A renewed focus on operational capability and military effectiveness

3. A reevaluation of DEI initiatives and their impact on recruitment and retention

4. Greater emphasis on the importance of service and the honor of serving one's country

5. More visible support from political leadership for the military and its mission

6. Improved communication from military leaders about the challenges facing the armed forces

The podcast concludes with each panelist offering a message to the Canadian public and potential recruits. Barbara Maisonneuve encourages young women to consider military service, emphasizing the opportunities for personal growth and achievement. Michel Maisonneuve highlights the benefits of a military career, including education, leadership experience, bilingualism, and physical fitness. Mark Norman urges Canadians to recognize the fragility of their privileged position and the importance of contributing to global security.

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