Joe Rogan Experience #2423 - John Cena

In this episode, Joe Rogan hosts professional wrestler and actor John Cena alongside comedian and wrestling enthusiast Tony Hinchcliffe. They delve into John Cena's wrestling career, his passion for languages and culture, his transition into acting, and personal philosophies on life, pain, gratitude, and success. The conversation also explores the intricacies of professional wrestling's storytelling, the demanding nature of a wrestling schedule, and the evolving media landscape with rising internet personalities.

Learning Mandarin and Cultural Challenges

John Cena shares his decade-long journey learning Mandarin as part of WWE's initiative to globalize wrestling, especially to break into the Chinese market. Despite not becoming conversationally fluent or able to read Chinese characters, he immersed himself enough to dream in the language and conduct much of his media in Mandarin during global press tours. Cena recounts the cultural challenges that arose during one tour due to a politically sensitive TV read referring to Taiwan as a country, which caused backlash both in China and the U.S. He stresses the lesson that knowing a language doesn't guarantee understanding of the culture, and his experience made him more cautious about cultural nuances in international communication.

Tony Hinchcliffe's Wrestling Expertise and WWE Industry Insights

Tony brings his comedic background and wrestling knowledge, revealing how he was once offered a WWE writing job, comparable to the demanding workload other WWE writers experienced, such as the late Patrice O'Neal. They discuss the scale and intensity of WWE's weekly programming, featuring multiple shows and numerous segments, underscoring the relentless nature of content production in wrestling. Tony explains how pro wrestling has evolved from its carnival roots to a national and now global business that values athlete development, education, and wellness programs like WWE's subsidized second language courses.

John Cena's Wrestling Career and Personal Growth

John recounts growing up as a wrestling superfan, the struggles of breaking into the business, and how his unique "white hip-hop" rapper persona initially polarized peers and management, including Vince McMahon. Despite backstage resistance, his unorthodox style connected with fans and ultimately secured his place in wrestling history. Cena reflects on the grind of wrestling's touring life—performing hundreds of shows annually, traveling constantly, and enduring physical and mental demands. He emphasizes how discipline, adaptability, and perseverance allowed him a 23-year career, contrasting with the average short lifespans common in contact sports and combat athletics.

Transition from Wrestling to Acting

Cena details his early challenges adapting to acting, including frustration with downtime on film sets and a lack of passion, which hindered his initial performances. After working on small projects and accepting the process of trial and error, he gradually found success, aided by opportunities with creators like Judd Apatow and Amy Schumer. The conversation highlights how Cena's wrestling background—his work ethic, resilience, and coachability—informed his approach to pursuing an acting career while acknowledging the unpredictability of the entertainment business.

Pain, Injury, and Physical Resilience

Both John and Tony reflect on their experiences with injuries and pain management. John describes multiple surgeries and his deliberate choice to avoid pain medications, trusting his body's natural healing and pain thresholds. They agree pain is subjective and influenced by genetics, experience, and mindset. Cena praises the resilience cultivated through physical hardship and emphasizes the importance of listening to one's body during recovery. They also note the psychological toll and risks of overusing opioids and the broader implications for athletes and performers.

The Role of Live Audiences and Storytelling in Wrestling and Comedy

John and Tony discuss the dynamic interaction between performers and live audiences, drawing parallels between pro wrestling and stand-up comedy. They highlight how crowd reactions influence pacing, storytelling, and performance adjustments on the fly. The thrill of surprising the audience and the importance of universal human emotions such as betrayal, jealousy, and excitement drive compelling narratives in wrestling. Tony's "Kill Tony" comedy show is cited as a prime example of wrestling's influence on live entertainment, with its spontaneous, crowd-responsive format.

Wrestling's Evolution and Global Reach

They explore wrestling's international styles, from Japan's strong style to Mexico's high-flying lucha libre and the UK's technical wrestling, contrasting them with WWE's American-style entertainment focused on spectacle and storytelling. Cena shares experiences from international tours and backstage insights into wrestling's territorial beginnings and the challenges in expanding global viewership, particularly in China where wrestling initially struggled to gain traction but now hosts thriving promotions. The WWE's move from multiple live non-televised shows to a content-heavy televised model is noted as a significant shift impacting performer development opportunities.

The Importance of Gratitude and Personal Philosophy

Cena reveals a deeply introspective perspective emphasizing gratitude as central to living a fulfilled life. He admits feeling undeserving of his luck but determined to honor it through humility, hard work, and seizing opportunities. The hosts reflect on letting go of grudges, especially regarding personal relationships, and the value of accepting others as they are. Cena stresses that fulfillment is not synonymous with fame or wealth, but with purpose, curiosity, and connection. The conversation touches on the dangers of entitlement, encouraging accountability and continuous self-improvement.

Perspective on Success and Failure

Both John and Tony acknowledge the rarity of sustained success and the multitude of factors that can hinder talented individuals, including self-sabotage and lack of drive. Cena advocates focusing on what can be controlled: effort, professionalism, and responsiveness to failure. They compare the relentless grind of WWE touring with the corporate world, highlighting parallels in discipline and fear of failure. The discussion underscores the necessity of patience and resilience, especially when opportunities arise unpredictably.

The Rise of New Media and Content Creators

The conversation shifts to the rise of content creators like IShowSpeed, who leverage platforms such as YouTube and TikTok to build massive audiences independently of traditional media. They admire his athleticism, charisma, and work ethic, noting the 24/7 nature of content creation and how creators must continuously produce and innovate due to the fleeting shelf-life of their work. Collaboration, adaptability, and direct fan engagement are cited as key factors fueling these newcomers' success, marking a cultural shift in entertainment and celebrity.

Wrestling's Demands and Long-Term Impact

John describes wrestling as a physically demanding art requiring repeated performance under constant stress, with careers shaped by calculated risk rather than direct competition. He contrasts WWE's cooperative performance model with the survival mindset in UFC fights, explaining that while risks in wrestling are choreographed, the frequency and intensity of bumps and matches exact a toll. The emotional and physical longevity necessary to sustain such a career is highlighted as exceptional and not easily replicated.

Reflections on Family and Mentorship

Cena shares painful and healing aspects of his relationship with his father, acknowledging past frustrations and the journey toward acceptance and understanding. He discusses finding mentors and father figures outside of his family who supported and guided his development. The conversation touches on social and economic factors shaping opportunity, with Cena's own experience growing up in a small town and carving out a path through fitness, wrestling, and entertainment. Mentorship is portrayed as crucial in bridging gaps left by family dynamics.

Spontaneity and Improvisation in Wrestling and Entertainment

They share anecdotes illustrating the spontaneous nature of live wrestling and comedy. John recalls arranging key moments, such as surprising reveals, mere minutes before going live, emphasizing the necessity of flexibility and trust among collaborators. Unscripted moments—like Dominic Mysterio's innovative cheating during a match—enhance audience engagement and demonstrate performers' creativity within structured formats. The blend of preparation and improvisation is celebrated as essential to keeping the entertainment fresh and authentic.

Career Longevity, Retirement, and Future Plans

John contemplates his impending retirement from wrestling, reflecting on the inevitability of passing the torch and the transient nature of fame. He expresses a desire to remain useful and purposeful beyond wrestling, embracing acting and storytelling while maintaining realistic expectations. The challenges of balancing creative ambitions against practical constraints, such as WWE's demanding schedule, are discussed. John shares interests outside wrestling and acting, including reading, cars, driving, and nurturing personal relationships he missed during his touring years.

The WWE Creative Process and Collaborative Production

John explains the collaborative approach behind WWE's creative decisions, such as his recent iconic heel turn characterized by the minimalist black entrance and silent crowd-defying presentation. Rather than dictating every detail, he works closely with production, lighting, camera, talent, and creative teams to craft memorable moments. The integration of various departments and shared input is critical to executing effective storytelling, demonstrating a modern entertainment model within wrestling's theatrical context.

Connections Between Wrestling, Comedy, and Audience Interaction

Tony and John discuss parallels between stand-up comedy and professional wrestling, focusing on long-term storytelling, live audience interaction, and adaptability. They explore the importance of energy, timing, and gauging crowd reactions to shape performances and maintain engagement. The role of narrative arcs in both forms, including the rise, fall, and redemption themes, underscores their shared foundations in entertainment that resonates through emotional universality.

The Role of Community and Perseverance in Success

Both guests recall early struggles, including living in impoverished or unstable conditions to pursue their dreams. John relates his experiences sleeping in his car while working at Gold's Gym, while Tony talks about sleeping on a bean bag during his early stand-up days. These hardships fostered grit, determination, and solidarity with others in similar positions. The discussion encourages listeners to appreciate these formative experiences and persist through adversity with a hopeful outlook toward eventual reward.

WWE Legends and Future Channel Guests

Tony expresses enthusiasm for interviewing wrestling legends such as Vince McMahon, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Triple H—figures essential to the modern wrestling industry. They speculate on the insights these pioneers could share about wrestling's evolution and cultural impact. John notes Vince's complex legacy, balancing respect for his creation of the wrestling empire with critical accountability. The hosts look forward to deep dives with these industry icons to continue exploring wrestling's multifaceted world.