Joe Rogan Experience #2460 - Rachel Wilson

In this podcast episode, Joe Rogan hosts Rachel Wilson, author of Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women's Liberation. Their conversation explores the historical roots and unintended consequences of feminism, challenging widely held assumptions about its origins and effects. The discussion spans personal anecdotes, socio-economic impacts of women entering the workforce, occult influences within early feminist movements, manipulation by governmental agencies, and the broader societal ramifications on family, culture, and gender roles.

Rachel Wilson's Personal Background and Path to Writing

Rachel Wilson begins by sharing her upbringing, shaped by a distinctly divided household: a conservative, entrepreneurial father and a Marxist feminist mother. This duality exposed her to conflicting ideologies from a young age. Educated in a traditional system that emphasized college and career paths, Wilson ultimately rejected the idea of prolonged formal education, desiring instead to prioritize family life. Her decision to forego college despite a full scholarship was met with disappointment by many, but she sought to forge a different path — one rooted in motherhood and homemaking, values she admired in her grandmother.

Wilson's personal experience as a young mother who chose to stay home rather than return immediately to work crystallized her skepticism toward modern feminist narratives that valorize women's participation in the workforce above family care. Her journey was influenced by the conflicting pressures from society and her own observations about the toll of juggling career and parenthood.

The Economic and Social Impact of Women Joining the Workforce

The conversation explains a fundamental shift that occurred in the 1970s: the dramatic increase in women with school-aged children entering the workforce. Prior to this change, only about 5% of such mothers worked outside the home, and a single income was generally sufficient to support a family. Wilson outlines how this abrupt expansion almost doubled the labor force within two decades, fundamentally altering the economy and society.

The influx of women into the workforce impacted men's wages, which have not recovered since. The workforce shifted toward more consumer-driven, service-oriented jobs, many of which—such as HR, retail, early childhood education, and psychology—are female-dominated fields paralleling traditional domestic roles feminists once labeled "unpaid labor." Instead of women supporting their families directly, much of this labor now benefits corporations and requires dual incomes to sustain a household.

This economic restructuring trapped many families in a "two-income trap," limiting the feasibility of traditional single-income households and complicating women's choices about family and career.

The Origins of Feminism: Grassroots or Manufactured?

Wilson challenges the mainstream narrative that feminism was a grassroots movement driven by oppressed women fighting for rights and suffrage. Instead, she highlights that most women in the 19th century were actually opposed to women's suffrage. Historical records reveal that anti-suffrage women outnumbered pro-suffrage advocates, and public debates from the era show women feared that suffrage would lead to losing existing legal protections, disrupt family unity, and force them into political burdens they did not desire.

Women's education access was not as restricted as commonly portrayed; female-only universities flourished and women were not legally barred from owning property or managing inheritances. The protection of women's financial status and exemption from certain legal responsibilities were valued benefits that suffrage threatened.

Moreover, prominent early feminists like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton worked vigorously to exclude anti-suffragist women's voices from the official histories, crafting a biased narrative that still dominates today and obscures the movement's more complex origins.

Feminism's Links to Marxism, Occultism, and Secret Agendas

Wilson contends that feminism was deeply intertwined with Marxism and occultism from its inception. Many early feminist leaders embraced spiritualism, theosophy, and even Luciferian or satanic symbolism, seeing traditional Christianity as patriarchal oppression. The occult elements were not just fringe but central to their worldview, promoting ideologies of gender abolition, communal living, and radical social change.

These feminist pioneers, including figures like Victoria Woodhull, were often involved in questionable activities such as free love advocacy, scams, and radical sexual politics that went far beyond simply seeking voting rights or equality.

Crucially, Wilson argues that feminism was leveraged by powerful elite interests—including those responsible for the Federal Reserve and compulsory education—to double the labor force, foster consumerism, and facilitate ideological indoctrination of young women into Marxist revolutionaries. Programs and publications like Ms. Magazine were covertly funded and supported by the CIA during the Cold War to promote feminism as a tool of Western liberalism against communism.

The Role of the CIA and Governmental Manipulation

A striking revelation involves the CIA's involvement in elevating feminist leaders like Gloria Steinem. Steinem was allegedly recruited straight out of college and given fake fellowships to travel globally and promote feminist ideals aligned with American geopolitical interests. Steinem's "undercover" stint as a Playboy Bunny served to push sexual liberation narratives.

This government-sponsored feminism aimed to radicalize women, encourage dual-income households, and shift societal loyalties from families to the state and corporations. Feminism, in this view, was not simply a liberation movement but a component in a larger social-engineering project to reshape culture and politics.

The Modern Realities of Feminism: Consequences on Women and Families

Wilson reflects on how the promises of feminism—to empower women, free them from abusive relationships, and offer true choice—have largely not come to fruition. Instead, many women experience greater unhappiness, loneliness, and mental health struggles than prior generations.

She discusses the "paradox of female happiness," where surveys show modern women reporting less satisfaction and fulfillment than women before the feminist revolution. This decline correlates with rising rates of substance abuse among women, higher rates of anxiety and depression, and a deterioration of family structures.

The destruction of traditional family units—especially the undermining of fatherhood—has resulted in children suffering more abuse, instability, and social problems. Data consistently shows children raised by married biological parents fare far better on every measure of stability and wellbeing.

Wilson argues that feminism's push to discard traditional roles has inadvertently marginalized motherhood and domestic care as lesser or oppressive, causing many women to feel trapped or regret their life choices. The glorification of the "career woman" often clashes with women's innate desires to nurture and build family, yet societal and economic pressures make it difficult to choose otherwise.

The Roots and Role of Margaret Sanger and Eugenics in Feminism

A particularly unsettling chapter involves Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood and a key figure in birth control advocacy. Wilson paints Sanger as a proponent of eugenics who targeted African-American, indigenous, and poor white communities for population control, advocating abortion and birth prevention as tools to shape humanity.

Many of Sanger's most dramatic claims—such as women dying from multiple childbirths or being unaware of contraception—are shown to be fabricated or exaggerated to justify her agenda. Wilson discloses that organizations supporting Sanger carefully edited or omitted contradictory evidence, reinforcing a sanitized feminist narrative that ignores the darker eugenic context.

Sanger's work led to the birth control pill and was deeply entwined with Rockefeller-funded research and Nazi-era racial hygiene ideologies, blending feminist goals with population control in disturbing ways.

Feminism and Sexual Liberation: Culture and Media Influence

Sexual liberation emerged as a powerful feminist tool, openly intertwining with countercultural occultism and rebellion. Influences like Jack Parsons, a NASA founder and occultist deeply involved in sex magic rituals with his partner Marjorie Cameron, exemplify the occult-feminist link in shaping 20th-century culture.

Media and celebrity culture promote archetypes of "boss babes" and hyper-sexualized female empowerment, reinforcing the modern narrative of women owning their sexuality and rejecting traditional family roles. However, Wilson points out that such models are often unattainable for most women and hide the psychological and social costs of these ideals.

She critiques the disconnect between feminist promises of achievement and autonomy and the realities wherein many women find themselves isolated, working in low-paying jobs while juggling family responsibilities or foregoing motherhood entirely.

Feminism's Effect on Gender Roles and Men

The podcast explores how feminism has reframed masculinity as toxic and diminished traditional men's roles, leaving many men confused or disengaged. Wilson comments on the current social climate, where boys and men face devaluation and societal expectations to be meek or emasculated.

This shift not only harms men's mental health but exacerbates dating difficulties, with hypergamy and unrealistic standards leaving many men excluded from relationships. The imbalance between feminine empowerment and masculine responsibility has created social tensions affecting both genders.

Wilson emphasizes the biological and social realities of gender differences, cautioning against ideologies that deny or erase these distinctions under the guise of fluidity or equality.

Critique of Modern Education, Media, and Ideology

Wilson criticizes the education system for being an indoctrination platform that teaches standpoint theory and denies objective truths, especially regarding women's history and gender issues. Gender studies and women's studies programs often rewrite history to fit contemporary narratives, sidelining facts that do not support feminist dogma.

Teachers, especially female teachers shaped by this ideology, contribute to perpetuating radical views in young people, including unrealistic sympathies toward criminals or distorted understandings of power and victimhood.

The media and pop culture further entrench these ideas, normalizing sexual liberation, gender confusion, and distrust between men and women, creating a society where traditional family values and stability are increasingly marginalized.

Personal Accountability, Self-Improvement, and the Role of Strength

Wilson stresses the importance of personal responsibility and self-discipline for both men and women. Drawing from her own lifestyle as a powerlifter and firearms instructor, she argues that physical strength and mental resilience are essential for navigating life's challenges.

She shares how exercise and hard work grounded her through personal hardships and loss, offering mental clarity and empowerment. Wilson laments that modern culture discourages men and women from embracing such disciplines, weakening societal fabric and individual wellbeing.

She also reflects on the unrealistic expectations feminism places on women to "have it all" while providing little guidance on balancing career, family, and self-care in a shifting economic landscape.

The Future: Choices Around Family and Career

Lastly, Wilson discusses the complex pressures faced by younger women today, torn between economic necessity, cultural expectations, and personal desires for family. Many women feel trapped by debt, job demands, or societal judgment if they choose traditional roles.

She suggests that providing women with genuine choices—not ideological impositions—could restore more balance. If women can afford to prioritize family and motherhood without financial ruin, many would choose that path, according to Wilson.

However, until structural changes occur, including economic support and cultural shifts valuing motherhood and caregiving, women often feel compelled into difficult compromises, perpetuating dissatisfaction and societal dysfunction.