Ancient Language Experts: What the Vatican is Hiding About Jesus | Ammon Hillman & Luke Gorton

In this podcast episode, ancient language experts Ammon Hillman and Luke Gorton engage in a deep and wide-ranging conversation about classical languages, linguistics, the origins and context of biblical texts, and controversial ideas surrounding the figure of Jesus. They discuss the differences between classics, linguistics, and biblical scholarship, ancient Mediterranean culture and religion—including magic and drug use—the Septuagint and Hebrew texts, and the linguistic and cultural implications of Jesus being called "the Christ." Throughout the dialogue, the two scholars explore historical methodologies, textual criticism, and issues of academic silos and public misunderstandings.

Academic Backgrounds and the Study of Classics and Linguistics

Ammon Hillman and Luke Gorton introduce themselves by detailing their academic journeys in classics and linguistics. Luke describes his lifelong fascination with ancient languages—starting with Latin in middle school, moving to Greek in college, and expanding to many ancient languages like Sanskrit, Avestan, Old Irish, Gothic, Hebrew, Old Egyptian, and Hittite. His academic emphasis lies in historical linguistics, focusing on how languages evolve and connect. Ammon's background includes a PhD in classics with a specialty in ancient medicine, pharmacology, and a master's in bacteriology, bridging humanities and sciences. He also studied under leading scholars of ancient magic, such as John Scarboro and Fritz Grah, and taught Greek to seminarians.

Both stress the importance of interdisciplinary communication, lamenting modern academia's compartmentalization, where classicists, linguists, and biblical scholars often operate in isolation. The hosts advocate for breaking down those silos and reaching wider audiences. They also emphasize the cultural and academic misunderstandings surrounding classics, such as the confusion about what "classics" means, the difficulty in popularizing those fields, and even humorous cultural barriers like classicists wearing sunglasses indoors.

Understanding Classics, Linguistics, and Biblical Scholarship

Luke outlines classical studies as the comprehensive examination of the ancient Mediterranean and Near East—from Spain in the west to Iran and India in the east—until about 500 AD. The main surviving evidence is in Greek and Latin texts, with philologists focusing on the meanings of words within their historical and cultural contexts. Linguistics, particularly historical linguistics, provides a scientific framework to understand language structures, evolution, and relatedness. Luke identifies himself as a hybrid scholar who bridges these fields, highlighting the benefits of this integrated approach, especially when reading ancient texts.

Biblical scholarship, by contrast, is specialized in biblical texts and their unique histories, although its practitioners vary widely in linguistic proficiency and engagement with wider ancient cultural contexts. Both guests criticize the common tendency for Bible scholars to isolate scripture from its broader linguistic and cultural milieu, which impedes fuller understanding. Luke notes that early Christians wrote primarily in Greek, and the New Testament should be read in the context of the wider Greek-speaking Mediterranean world.

The Ancient Mediterranean World and Cultural Exchange

The conversation turns to the cultural geography of the ancient world, emphasizing the cosmopolitan character of the Mediterranean basin before the rise of Christianity and Islam. The Greeks and Romans had complex relationships with the older civilizations of Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Persia. The Greeks admired Egyptian knowledge and science, which they understood as predating their own traditions.

Trade and cultural exchange spread goods, including opium and other drugs, as well as religious and magical practices. The example of small Egyptian vases shaped like opium poppy heads and archaeological findings of vessels containing psychotropic substances alongside human bodily fluids illustrate how drugs and ritualistic practices were embedded within ancient cultures. The mixing of languages, religions, and people in this region gave rise to texts like the Greek Magical Papyri (PGM), which were compilations of spells, hymns, and pharmacological recipes written in Greek but infused with multiethnic influences.

Ancient Language and Translation Methodologies

A significant part of the discussion addresses linguistic methodology, especially the challenges of translating and interpreting ancient texts across languages and cultures. Luke explains that philology is the "love of words," involving deep analysis of ancient alphabets, grammar, semantics, and the socio-historical context. The meaning of words depends heavily on their usage in the original culture and the linguistic landscape of the time.

They highlight differences between classical Greek and later Koine Greek found in the New Testament and Septuagint translation, noting how Greek evolved over time and across regions. The guests also discuss issues with relying on medieval scholastic commentators (scolia) for interpreting ancient Greek vocabulary, cautioning that their linguistic environment was vastly different and separated by many centuries from the classical period.

The conversation touches on the "sounds-like" principle in etymology—the temptation to connect words based on superficial phonetic similarities—and how modern historical linguistics uses more rigorous, scientific methods to trace the evolution of words using recognized sound laws and morphological patterns. They use examples like the English name "Dick" and the Greek verb "creo" (meaning to apply or anoint) to illustrate how meanings can shift and require careful contextual analysis.

The Septuagint and Hebrew Textual Traditions

Ammon presents a controversial theory that the Septuagint—the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible—may have originally been written in Greek, with Hebrew texts being back-translations or constructed later, challenging the commonly accepted view. He bases this on lexical analysis of key Hebrew words in Genesis and elsewhere, arguing that some Hebrew forms better reflect Greek conceptual frameworks.

Luke counters by emphasizing archaeological evidence and manuscript traditions showing the existence of Hebrew (and proto-Hebrew) texts well before the Septuagint was produced. He references finds such as the 7th-century BC silver scroll containing priestly blessings written in Paleo-Hebrew script and explains the difference between historical textual survivals and the sometimes fragmentary nature of ancient documentation due to destruction and losses.

They debate linguistic inheritance and transmission, noting that Hebrew was a liturgical language by Jesus's time, with Aramaic as the lingua franca in Palestine, while Greek served as the cosmopolitan colonial language. This multilingual environment complicates the question of the "original" language and the directionality of translation between Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

Early Christian Language and Jesus's Historical Context

The scholars discuss Jesus's linguistic and cultural background, agreeing that Jesus was likely an Aramaic-speaking peasant in Roman-occupied Palestine and that Greek functioned as a colonial language among elites. The New Testament authors wrote in Greek, sometimes preserving Aramaic phrases (e.g., Jesus's cry from the cross "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani").

Luke explains the linguistic breakdown of this phrase in Aramaic and its transliteration difficulties into Greek. The discussion highlights how Greek speakers transcribed Semitic sounds (like "sh") with Greek letters that approximated but never perfectly rendered those phonemes.

They analyze how linguistic evidence reflects the multiethnic, multilingual reality of the early Mediterranean and emphasize that understanding Jesus's message requires knowledge of both his native Aramaic culture and the Koine Greek environment in which his followers spread their teachings.

Christos and the Origins of the Title "Christ"

A substantial segment focuses on the linguistic and cultural significance of the word "Christ" (Greek: Christos) and its relationship to religious, historical, and pharmaceutical terminology. Ammon argues that the Greek term derives from the root meaning "anointed one," but also has deep connections to ancient pharmaceutics and rituals involving application of substances—"Christing" as an act of anointing or injecting drugs, often used in magical contexts with sexual connotations.

Luke clarifies that Christos is a past participle in Greek meaning "the anointed one," analogous to the Hebrew "Mashiach" (Messiah). They emphasize that neither "Christ" nor "Messiah" was originally a name but a title designating one ceremonially anointed with oil (a ritual verified throughout the Hebrew Bible for kings, priests, and prophets).

They explore how over centuries, the term accrued layers of meaning and became associated with Jesus in the Greco-Roman world, where linguistic misunderstanding and cultural shifts could have led to conflations with drug-related or magical concepts. They draw a hypothetical analogy with a fictional Polynesian ritual involving "bitten ones" to illustrate how religious titles derive from local customs and may be misconstrued when translated across languages and cultures.

Ancient Magic, Drugs, and Religious Contexts

Both scholars emphasize the role of drugs and magical practices in ancient Mediterranean religions, including early Jewish and Christian contexts. They highlight sources such as the Greek Magical Papyri and medical writers like Galen and Dioscorides illustrating the prevalence of pharmaceutics, including opium and potions used for healing, vision, and altered states.

The podcast teases more detailed discussions planned for future episodes, including the controversial idea that Jesus and his followers were involved in mystery rituals including the consumption of semen and other taboo acts within ancient magical rites. Ammon suggests that biblical texts and early Christian controversies reflect these diverse and sometimes scandalous religious practices.

Methodological Considerations on Ancient Textual Interpretation

Throughout the dialogue, methodology is a recurring theme. Both guests advocate for careful, contextual, and skeptical analysis of ancient texts. Luke stresses the importance of evaluating the age of sources, the original languages, and the cultural and historical context before drawing conclusions, especially when dealing with later apocryphal or heretical writings that may distort or mythologize earlier traditions.

Ammon emphasizes approaching texts not only philologically but also through the lens of the social and cultural realities that produced them, including ignoring modern taboos and biases that obscure understanding of ancient customs such as sexuality, magic, and pharmacology.

They caution listeners against simplistic or ideologically driven interpretations and underscore the inherent uncertainties that come with studying ancient history, noting the fragmentary nature of surviving evidence and the necessity of probabilistic reasoning in historical scholarship.

The Isaiah Scroll and Biblical Textual Reliability

Toward the end, the conversation touches briefly on the Dead Sea Scrolls, particularly the Isaiah Scroll, and its remarkable agreement with the traditional Masoretic Text, despite the thousand-year time gap. Luke explains that while some Dead Sea Scrolls align closely with the Masoretic Text, others differ, and that oral transmission and careful scribal practices might explain the stability of these texts over centuries.

They recognize this as a fascinating topic warranting a full discussion on its own and reflect on the implications for textual criticism and faith.

Outreach and Public Engagement

Finally, both experts express mutual respect and emphasize the importance of public engagement, bridge-building between academic disciplines, and combating misinformation. Luke mentions his YouTube project "Word Safari," which delves into etymology and language history with a general audience, while Ammon directs listeners to his channel "Lady Babylon." They note that this kind of accessible scholarship is crucial to bring these complex topics beyond academic silos and to encourage critical and informed inquiry.