Megyn Kelly on Venezuela, Ben Shapiro’s Treachery, and Mark Levin’s Mental Illness

In this podcast episode, Megyn Kelly joins the discussion to provide a candid and wide-ranging analysis of the recent US actions in Venezuela, the evolving nature of American foreign policy and empire, and the internal dynamics within the conservative movement. The conversation also touches on the rising tensions around free speech, the influence of pro-Israel factions within conservative circles, and a critical look at figures like Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin, exploring their roles and impact.

Venezuela and the Shift to Open Empire

The discussion begins with an exploration of the unprecedented US operation in Venezuela, where the Venezuelan president was reportedly captured by Delta Force and taken to New York for trial. This action marks a stark departure from the hidden motives that previously underpinned US foreign interventions. Unlike past justifications cloaked in ideals of democracy or human rights, this move was openly justified by national interest and resource control—specifically Venezuela's vast oil reserves. Kelly and the host agree this represents the US openly acknowledging its imperial status, shedding prior pretenses.

Kelly expresses skepticism about this new aggressive stance, noting that while honesty about motives is refreshing, it comes with great risks. She worries about unintended consequences similar to those witnessed in Libya post-intervention, such as chaos, civil war, and humanitarian crises. Despite the administration's attempt to place Maduro's number two in charge to maintain some stability, the possibility of a power vacuum and increased violence looms large. Kelly emphasizes her preference for a defensive military posture over offensive empire-building and remains wary about overextending the US military in complex foreign entanglements.

Executive Power and the Erosion of Legislature

The episode underscores the consolidation of power in the executive branch as an inevitable byproduct of America's imperial phase. Congress's diminishing role is highlighted by its absence in critical decisions like the Venezuela operation. This shift means that future presidential elections have exponentially more weight, given the enhanced unilateral powers of the president. Kelly and the host note this centralization as a familiar cycle in empires but caution that it demands serious, measured leadership to avoid disastrous overreach or hubris.

The End of the Post-War International Order

With the US openly pursuing raw national interest, traditional international laws and norms—especially those protecting smaller nations from the domination by great powers—are described as effectively dead. The move in Venezuela, openly motivated by oil politics, challenges the established narrative that aggressive acts by powers like Russia in Ukraine or China toward Taiwan are unjustified. The podcast argues this newfound honesty exposes the hypocrisy in previous foreign policy stances and potentially undermines international institutions like the UN, NATO, and WHO, casting them as obsolete once the pretense of shared global values is discarded.

The Role of Military Expansion and War Readiness

The conversation turns to the newly announced Pentagon budget hike to $1.5 trillion, signaling preparation for significant military conflict rather than peacekeeping or simple defense. Kelly warns this points toward the likelihood of escalating warfare in coming years, potentially a global conflict. She suggests that strategic alliances, particularly between the US and Russia, are essential to prevent the formation of an adversarial Russia-China bloc that could overwhelm American power. The lack of serious diplomacy with Russia is framed as a critical foreign policy failure driven in part by entrenched neoconservatives and the defense industry's vested interests.

Stability as the Core of Empire Management

Kelly echoes the host's view that the first priority of an empire is maintaining stability rather than ideological pursuits like forced democracy or regime change. She highlights the Trump administration's apparent decision to avoid chaos in Venezuela by leaving Maduro's deputy in place, contrasting it with the disastrous outcomes in Iraq and Libya. This pragmatic approach is applauded as an important lesson in empire management, acknowledging that chaos is worse than tyranny and stability is crucial for prosperity.

Domestic Implications: The Danger of Overreach and Hubris

The discussion stresses that imperial ambitions carry inherent risks of overextension and catastrophic miscalculations, especially when misguided or overly emotional voices in government advocate for unnecessary military adventures. Figures such as Lindsey Graham and Mark Levin are criticized for impulsive war rhetoric and overblown threats, which could drag the nation into avoidable conflicts. Kelly praises Trump's apparent resistance to some of these pressures, particularly in averting more disruptive efforts to reshape Venezuela's government with unsuitable figures.

The Crisis of Free Speech and Identity Politics

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the alarming trend toward restricting free speech in the US, especially under the guise of combatting "hate speech." Kelly and the host present examples of political and media figures openly calling for censorship, content control on social media, and hate crimes legislation modeled after European laws. They warn this undermines the First Amendment and threatens the foundational American principle of uninhibited expression, especially when applied unevenly to protect certain groups while suppressing others.

Kelly highlights the increasing prevalence of identity politics and government endorsement of selective protections, like codified anti-Semitism laws in some states, which define criticism of Israel as a crime. She argues this not only erodes free speech but is highly divisive and counterproductive, fueling cycles of resentment rather than reducing hatred. The conversation stresses the need for Americans to zealously defend their right to offend, criticize, and express unpopular views as a line that must not be crossed, warning that loss of this freedom equates to slavery.

Pro-Israel Influence and Internal Conservative Conflicts

The podcast then delves into the complex and sometimes toxic role of pro-Israel advocacy within the conservative movement. Kelly reveals how intense loyalty to Israel among some factions has led to ostracization and censorship of even fellow conservatives who question or criticize aspects of Israeli policy. She shares her personal experience with being labeled anti-Semitic for refusing to condemn fellow conservatives like Candace Owens or sever relationships over disagreements about Israel.

Kelly identifies a powerful "Israel first" contingent within American politics that demands strict conformity and punishes dissent under the threat of deplatforming and personal attacks. This has created fractures across the right, with independent thinkers like Kelly and the host pushed out or marginalized despite publicly defending Israel's existence and security. The conversation highlights how this divisiveness harms both Jewish Americans and conservatives, exacerbating identity conflict and undermining unity.

Mark Levin's Behavior and Mental Health Concerns

A focal point of the discussion is the particularly aggressive and antagonistic conduct of Mark Levin, a well-known conservative commentator. Kelly and the host portray Levin as mentally unwell, describing his rhetoric as incendiary and his attacks as personal and often crossing lines of decency, especially his targeting of fellow conservatives and Christians. They discuss an incident where Levin mocked a Catholic friend's religious devotion by ridiculing a photo of him holding a rosary, suggesting underlying hostility to Christianity despite Levin's public persona.

Kelly stresses that Levin represents a dangerous element within the conservative media sphere—someone whose behavior fuels division and paranoia rather than thoughtful discourse. She advocates for the Trump administration and conservative leaders to distance themselves from such figures who bring chaos rather than clarity to critical discussions, especially with impending national challenges.

Ben Shapiro's Role in Dividing Conservatives

The episode also touches on Ben Shapiro's controversial involvement in deepening internal conservative fractures. Kelly recounts being publicly attacked by Shapiro for refusing to denounce associations or to police other voices within the movement. She characterizes his actions as damaging and driven by rigid adherence to pro-Israel and pro-establishment positions at the expense of broader conservative unity. The tension between principled independence and factional loyalty is portrayed as a significant ongoing struggle.

Media Landscape and the Fate of Network News

Kelly offers a critical appraisal of the major media outlets, focusing on CBS News and Fox News. She expresses little optimism about CBS's ability to regain relevance or credibility, citing poorly executed leadership like Barry Weiss's ill-advised initiatives, which have alienated talent and viewers alike. Kelly voices skepticism about Weiss's suitability for broadcast journalism despite being an articulate commentator.

Regarding Fox News, Kelly observes that the network's current formula heavily relies on its association with Donald Trump's star power, which will fade after his eventual departure. She emphasizes that younger conservatives are increasingly alienated by Fox's unwavering pro-Israel and neoconservative stance, which does not reflect their skepticism toward foreign interventions and identity politics. Kelly warns that without adaptation, Fox faces decline similar to other traditional networks struggling to engage the next generation.

Reevaluating Israel and Middle East Narratives

Kelly reveals her personal journey in reconsidering long-held assumptions about Israel and the Middle East, questioning the simplistic narratives often propagated within conservative circles and mainstream media. She underscores the difficulty in obtaining unbiased information and the extent to which both Israeli and Palestinian sides engage in propaganda. Kelly expresses a nuanced view that respects Israel's right to defend itself while also acknowledging the complex realities and moral ambiguities of ongoing conflicts, suggesting thoughtful reexamination is necessary to foster realistic policies.

The Rise of Identity Politics and Its Pitfalls

Throughout the conversation, Kelly underscores the destructive influence of identity politics across the political spectrum, particularly its weaponization within debates about race, religion, and ethnicity. She highlights how efforts to criminalize or suppress opinions based on identity threaten the social fabric and fuel extremism on all sides. Kelly cautions that artificially imposed group hierarchies foster resentment and alienation, inadvertently empowering extremist voices and fracturing national unity.

Megan Kelly's Relationship With the Movement

In a candid reflection, Kelly discusses her fraught relationships within conservative media and the broader right. She resists pressure to conform to rigid ideological litmus tests, choosing to maintain friendships and express independent opinions even when it results in public criticism or ostracism. Her stance exemplifies a call for greater tolerance of diverse views and open dialogue within political movements, warning against internal purges that undermine collective strength.

Preparing for a New Era

Finally, Kelly and the host emphasize the urgency for serious, sober leadership in this era of imperial ambition and geopolitical tension. They caution against reckless adventurism and call for pragmatic policies rooted in national interest and stability. Kelly's message is clear: America must navigate its new imperial reality wisely, restrain impulsive voices clamoring for war, and preserve fundamental American freedoms, especially free speech, to withstand the challenges ahead.