Conversation With a Ghostwriter - Joshua Lisec | Real Talk With Zuby Ep. 278

Added: Oct 6, 2023

The conversation begins with Joshua explaining how he stumbled into the world of ghostwriting by accident. As a young aspiring novelist, he received a publishing deal for his own novels, and people started approaching him to help them with their memoirs. Joshua has been ghostwriting for over 12 years now.

Zuby expresses his mixed feelings about ghostwriting, particularly in the context of music, where it is generally frowned upon for artists, especially in the hip-hop and rap genres, to use ghostwriters. He wonders about the reasons why people choose to use ghostwriters in the first place.

Joshua reveals that between 85% and 93% of bestselling books are ghostwritten, including both fiction and non-fiction works. He explains that many famous authors have a team of ghostwriters working on their books, allowing them to release multiple books each year. In non-fiction, it is usually a collaboration between the author and a single ghostwriter.

Zuby expresses his surprise at the high percentage of ghostwritten books and questions the purpose of the author if they are not the ones doing the actual writing. Joshua clarifies that the author's name is on the cover because it is their beliefs, stories, opinions, and experiences that are being conveyed in the book. The ghostwriter's role is to structure and refine the author's ideas and help them communicate their message effectively.

The discussion delves into the controversy surrounding ghostwriting, particularly in the music industry. While there is less controversy in the literary world, Joshua acknowledges that some authors mention their ghostwriters in the acknowledgments or give them credit in small font on the book cover. He emphasizes that ghostwriting is a common practice among famous authors and is widely known within the industry.

Zuby expresses his skepticism about using a ghostwriter, as he believes that if someone does not write their own book, they cannot be considered an author. He compares it to other creative fields, such as painting or music, where the person who creates the work is credited as the artist or musician. Joshua argues that the purpose of hiring a ghostwriter is to save time and ensure that the book is well-written and structured, allowing the author to focus on their expertise and personal brand.

The conversation takes a turn as Zuby questions the ethics of ghostwriting, particularly when it comes to fiction. He believes that fiction books should be the product of the author's creativity and artistry. Joshua acknowledges that fiction ghostwriting can be controversial, citing the recent example of Millie Bobby Brown, the actress from Stranger Things, who had a ghostwriter for her debut novel. While some fans were understanding, others were shocked and appalled by the revelation.

Zuby brings up the topic of artificial intelligence and its potential impact on ghostwriting. He wonders if using AI to write books would still qualify someone as an author. Joshua agrees that AI raises interesting questions about authorship and creativity. He believes that transparency is crucial, and if someone uses AI or any other means to write a book, they should be honest about it.

The conversation continues with Zuby expressing his concerns about honesty and transparency in the creative process. He believes that if someone claims to have written a book but did not actually write it, they are being dishonest with their audience. Joshua emphasizes that his clients are typically entrepreneurs who view ghostwriting as a business expense and are transparent about their collaboration.

The conversation continues with Zuby expressing his perspective on ghostwriting in the hip-hop world. He believes that if artists like Jay-Z, Lil Wayne, J. Cole, Kendrick Lamar, or Tupac were revealed to have ghostwriters, it would be a major scandal and their authenticity would be questioned. Zuby argues that in other genres like country, pop, and rock, it is more accepted for artists to have songwriters credited, whereas in hip-hop, it is seen as deceptive if the artist doesn't write their own lyrics.

Joshua agrees with Zuby's point about authenticity and transparency. He mentions that in other genres, the names of the writers are usually credited, so there is no deception. However, in the case of ghostwriting, where the writer's name is not disclosed, it creates a sense of deception. Joshua believes that consumers should be aware of all the details to make an informed decision about the authenticity of the work.

They also discuss how public figures, including politicians and business leaders, often keep their ghostwriters or speechwriters anonymous because they fear that revealing their involvement in the creative process will lead to questions about their authenticity in other areas. Joshua mentions that these individuals tend to have big egos and are afraid of sharing the glory or being seen as inauthentic.

Joshua shares his experience as a ghostwriter and mentions that clients who are open about their use of ghostwriters tend to be better clients overall. They are more willing to share the credit and collaborate on the creative process. On the other hand, clients who try to keep their ghostwriters a secret often make terrible clients because they are constantly looking over their shoulder and are afraid of being exposed.

The conversation then shifts to Joshua's work as a ghostwriter and how many books he typically writes in a year. Joshua mentions that he usually writes between six and nine books per year, although there was one year where he wrote 13 or 14, which was exhausting. He also mentions that he is not just a ghostwriter but also a ghost strategist and marketer, as he often gets involved in conversations with clients' marketing teams and helps them sell their books and other products.

Joshua explains that what works to sell a book also works well to sell courses, masterclasses, coaching, and other professional services. He has developed expertise in marketing and persuasion through his experience writing books on various topics and industries. He mentions that personal brands with a book at the beginning of their information product ecosystem tend to sell more of everything else over time because the book serves as an entry-level product that establishes credibility and trust.