Added: Nov 28, 2023
In this podcast episode, Jordan Peterson discusses the moral obligation to do remarkable things in life. He begins by acknowledging the difficulty and challenges of life, emphasizing the importance of giving it everything one has, to avoid becoming embittered and a force for darkness. Peterson believes that life's brevity and brutality should not terrify individuals into hiding and avoiding, but rather inspire them to take risks and embrace adventure.One of the key points Peterson makes is the importance of living in truth and acting in a manner that aligns with one's beliefs. He emphasizes the need to let go of the consequences and embrace the adventure of not knowing what will happen. By speaking and acting truthfully, individuals can harness the force of reality and bring their true selves into the world.
Peterson also delves into the dangers of cynicism, highlighting the tendency for cynics to manipulate and craft their words to avoid taking responsibility or gain an undeserved advantage. He argues that cynicism can lead to jealousy and destructive behavior, ultimately contributing to a dark and negative force in the world.
Peterson encourages individuals to confront the future with courage and faith, believing that this the most appropriate way to approach life's challenges. He also discusses the importance of humility and the willingness to ask questions and seek the truth, even if it means confronting one's own ignorance.
As the discussion continues, Peterson reflects on the impact of fame and the scrutiny that comes with it. He shares his observations of the widespread demoralization in society, particularly among young men, and the importance of offering encouragement to those in need. Despite the challenges of fame, Peterson acknowledges the wealth of opportunities it has brought him and the positive impact he has been able to make through his platform.
Peterson continues by sharing his personal journey, highlighting the stress and uncertainty he faced when his job at a university was on the line. Despite his successful career at prestigious institutions like Harvard and the University of Toronto, he found himself in a position where his clinical practice and university job were threatened. This unsettling experience led him to reflect on the nature of his work and the challenges he faced in teaching unconventional topics in neuroscience and psychology.
One of the key themes that emerges from the conversation is the idea of maintaining integrity and authenticity in the face of adversity. Peterson emphasizes the importance of being true to oneself and not succumbing to the pressure of conforming to societal expectations. He shares his own experiences of being warned not to talk about certain topics or beliefs, but choosing to stay true to his vision and principles.
The discussion also delves into the concept of loving one's enemy and the value of adversarial conversations. Peterson reflects on the benefits of engaging with critics and how these interactions can lead to personal growth and self-reflection. He shares examples of how adversarial interviews and criticisms have been formative experiences for him, leading to deeper insights and personal development.
Another important theme that emerges from the conversation is the idea of practicing gratitude in the face of adversity. Peterson draws on the story of Job from the Bible to illustrate the concept of maintaining faith and gratitude in the midst of unjust suffering. He emphasizes the moral obligation to maintain faith and treat others with kindness, regardless of the challenges one faces.
One of the key themes discussed in the podcast is the state of modern universities and the impact of administrative and ideological shifts on academic freedom. Peterson shares his observations on the erosion of academic integrity, citing the pressure for faculty members to conform to certain ideologies and the resulting impact on the pursuit of truth and knowledge. He highlights the dangers of sacrificing intellectual honesty for the sake of security and the importance of courage in speaking the truth, even in the face of risk.
The conversation also delves into the challenges faced by young adults, particularly in the realm of mental health and identity formation. Peterson explores the findings of a recent report from The Harvard Graduate School of Education, which details the drivers of anxiety for young adults aged 18 to 25. The report highlights the prevalence of feelings of loneliness, achievement pressure, and a lack of meaning or purpose in the lives of young adults. Peterson emphasizes the importance of establishing meaningful relationships and taking on hierarchical responsibilities as a pathway to mental health and fulfillment.
Another significant topic addressed in the podcast is the influence of culture wars on intellectual discourse and the allocation of cognitive resources. Peterson discusses the impact of smart individuals getting caught up in debates over contentious issues, such as gender identity, and the potential loss of valuable intellectual energy in the process. He explores the balance between engaging with trending topics and maintaining a focus on deeper philosophical, theological, and existential matters.
The conversation also touches on Peterson's upcoming book, "We Who Wrestle with God," in which he delves into the nature of God as explored in religious texts, particularly the Bible. Peterson emphasizes the importance of understanding the definition of God and the implications of the highest good as a guiding force in human decision-making. He highlights the role of stories in shaping our understanding of hierarchies of value and the significance of narratives in conveying meaning and resonance.
Another central theme of the podcast is the idea that reality is not always what it seems. Peterson discusses the concept of mathematical abstractions and their relationship to reality, highlighting the debate among philosophers about the nature of mathematical truths. He suggests that mathematical abstractions may be more real than the physical world from which they are abstracted, as they encapsulate the underlying essence of reality.
The conversation also delves into the concept of narrative archetypes and their significance in understanding the world. Peterson explains that archetypes, such as those found in the biblical corpus, are narrative abstractions that can be more real than the apparent world. He argues that these archetypes represent a hyperreal narrative that transcends the physical world, offering a deeper understanding of human existence and the nature of reality.
The podcast also explores the idea of sacrifice and its role in human striving. Peterson draws on the biblical story of Cain and Abel to illustrate the concept of sacrifice as a fundamental aspect of human existence. He explains that sacrifice is a sacrificial relationship to the world, where individuals must make sacrifices in the present for the benefit of the future. This sacrificial relationship is characterized as a covenant, where the right sacrifices lead to a paradisal future.
The conversation delves into the importance of facing challenges and making difficult decisions in life. Peterson emphasizes the need to confront obstacles and make sacrifices in order to achieve personal growth and fulfillment. He discusses the concept of the Michelangelo effect, where individuals strive to become the idealized version of themselves and their partners, continually working towards self-improvement and mutual growth.
The podcast also touches on the role of dopamine in motivation and the pursuit of goals. Peterson explains that dopamine is not just about the pursuit of happiness, but rather the happiness of pursuit. He highlights the importance of setting high goals and working towards them, as the reward of advancement towards a goal is a powerful motivator for human engagement and focus.
The conversation then shifts to the relationship between wealth and competence. Peterson explains that women often use wealth as a proxy for attractiveness because wealth is a proxy for competence. He emphasizes that competence is the treasure, not the wealth itself, and that being competent means being able to thrive even in challenging situations. This idea is further illustrated by the analogy of physical fitness, where the story someone tells about themselves through their dedication to fitness is more important than the physical manifestation of their efforts.
The conversation also touches on the concept of universities and the value of higher education. Peterson acknowledges that while the traditional university experience has its merits, it has also become increasingly corrupt. He highlights the importance of finding mentors and professors who can teach students how to think, rather than just imparting knowledge.
Another significant topic discussed is the relationship between the pursuit of truth in science and religious beliefs. Peterson argues that science, as a practice, is predicated on religious axioms, such as the belief in truth, the understanding of truth, and the pursuit of good. He suggests that the decline of religious beliefs has also led to a decline in the scientific enterprise, as the metaphysical substrate of science has been undermined.
The podcast also provides insights into Peterson's upcoming book, which he describes as a more difficult and deeper work than his previous publications. He expresses his hope that the book will challenge atheistic arguments and lead readers to reconsider their beliefs. Peterson emphasizes the importance of humility in the pursuit of knowledge and the need to attend to one's ignorance, which he believes is a spiritual pursuit.
The conversation concludes with Peterson offering advice to Williamson as he prepares for an upcoming tour. He emphasizes the importance of gratitude and humility, both on and off the stage, and the need to treat the audience as guests. Peterson also shares his personal ritual of looking at the audience before a performance to mark them as individuals and to remind himself of the privilege of speaking to them.