Added: Aug 6, 2023
In this podcast episode, host Chris Williamson interviews Erik Hoel, a neuroscientist and author, about the current state of consciousness research and the theories surrounding it. Hoel begins by discussing the historical separation of consciousness from science, which originated with Galileo's focus on quantitative aspects of the world and the exclusion of qualitative aspects. This separation has hindered progress in neuroscience, as the study of consciousness has been largely ignored or dismissed.Hoel highlights the significance of two Nobel laureates, Francis Crick and Gerald Edelman, who recognized the importance of understanding how the brain creates consciousness. Their recognition led to the establishment of institutes and research efforts focused on consciousness. However, Hoel notes that neuroscience as a whole has struggled to make significant advancements in understanding consciousness due to the field's behaviorist approach and the reluctance to discuss or study consciousness directly. The conversation then delves into the challenges of studying consciousness and the limitations of current scientific approaches. Hoel emphasizes the need for a scientific theory of consciousness, which would provide a framework for understanding the relationship between subjective experiences and neural activity. He criticizes the predominant focus on extrinsic perspectives in neuroscience, which prioritize external observations and explanations, while neglecting the intrinsic perspective of subjective experiences. Hoel also explores the role of philosophers in the study of consciousness, particularly Descartes and his dualistic view of the mind and body. He discusses the paradoxical nature of consciousness, where there are strong arguments for its irreducibility to the material, but also a lack of understanding of how the intrinsic and extrinsic perspectives can interact. The conversation touches on the bicameral mind hypothesis proposed by Julian Jaynes, which suggests that modern consciousness emerged during the Homeric ages when the two hemispheres of the brain became connected. The discussion continues with the potential implications of finding a satisfactory theory of consciousness. Hoel believes that it would revolutionize our understanding of ourselves and lead to significant technological advancements. He envisions the ability to create exceptional art and the potential for transformative changes in various fields. Hoel discusses the nature of consciousness and its relationship to artificial intelligence. He expresses concern about the development of AI and suggests that certain types of AI may be impossible without consciousness. However, he acknowledges that the current scientific consensus is that contemporary AI systems are not conscious. Hoel highlights the lack of funding for consciousness research, both at the private and public levels. He notes that while there has been some improvement in funding for neuroscience research, grants specifically for studying consciousness are still difficult to obtain. He argues that this lack of understanding of consciousness is a significant gap in our understanding of the universe and a missed opportunity for scientific exploration. The conversation then turns to the topic of free will. Hoel addresses the argument against free will that suggests our actions are determined by the laws of physics and that we are not truly responsible for our choices. He introduces the concept of causal emergence, which challenges this argument by demonstrating that macro-scale descriptions of systems can have irreducible causal power, even if they are reducible to micro-scale descriptions. He explains that macro-scale entities, such as humans, can have real causal influence in the world, which is necessary for the existence of free will. Hoel emphasizes that his argument does not prove the existence of free will but rather challenges the standard arguments against it. He suggests that the scientific understanding of causation, prediction, and complexity has evolved and that there is more room for debate and exploration than many people realize. He encourages a reevaluation of the assumptions underlying discussions of free will and a recognition of the complexity of the world. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the potential impact of a theory of consciousness on our understanding of free will. Hoel suggests that a theory of consciousness could have significant relevance to the concept of free will, but he also cautions that consciousness is a wild card and that its ontology could fundamentally change our conceptions of the universe. He encourages continued exploration and discussion of free will, consciousness, and neuroscience, highlighting the complexity and ongoing development of these fields.