Walter Isaacson: Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Einstein, Da Vinci & Ben Franklin | Lex Fridman Podcast #395

Added: Sep 13, 2023

Isaacson begins by discussing the significance of a difficult childhood in the lives of great minds. While it is not a requirement for success, many driven individuals harness the demons of their childhood to fuel their ambition. Isaacson cites examples such as Einstein, who faced bullying and a psychologically problematic father, and Elon Musk, who had a violent and psychologically difficult childhood. These experiences shape their drive and willingness to take risks.

The conversation then delves into the specific experiences of Elon Musk during his childhood. Isaacson shares stories of Musk being bullied and physically assaulted, as well as his traumatic experiences at a paramilitary camp in South Africa. Musk's difficult relationship with his father, who was both brilliant and psychologically abusive, also had a profound impact on him. Isaacson emphasizes that Musk's demons from his childhood continue to influence his actions and drive him to take on risky and adventurous endeavors.

Isaacson highlights the importance of harnessing one's demons and knowing one's strengths. He shares his own experience of having a gentle and sweet childhood, which may have limited his drive and ambition compared to individuals like Musk. Isaacson admires those who are in the arena, taking risks and pushing boundaries, while he observes and writes about their achievements.

The conversation then explores the commonalities between Musk, Jobs, Einstein, Da Vinci, and Franklin. Isaacson notes that all of these individuals were visual thinkers and had a knack for thinking outside the box. Their ability to visualize and imagine solutions to problems set them apart. Isaacson also emphasizes the importance of empathy towards humanity and having a mission-driven mindset. These individuals were not just driven by personal success but also by a desire to make a positive impact on the world.

Isaacson discusses the iterative nature of innovation and the willingness to adjust and pivot along the way. He uses examples from Musk's companies, such as Tesla and SpaceX, where they constantly iterate and make adjustments based on feedback and new discoveries. Isaacson also highlights the importance of being adventurous and taking risks, as well as having an end-to-end control over the entire process, from design to manufacturing.

The conversation touches on the concept of living in a simulation, a theory that Musk has mentioned in the past. Isaacson acknowledges that Musk has a sense of humor and a lightheartedness about the absurdity of life. He speculates that Musk's love for science fiction, particularly "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," may have influenced his perspective on life.

Isaacson continues by discussing the power of words and language. He acknowledges that language has the ability to inspire, connect, and even start wars. However, he also recognizes the importance of mathematics and visual thinking in understanding the world. He mentions his recent experience in the metaverse, where he interacted with a virtual version of himself, raising questions about the significance of physical reality.

Isaacson continues by discussing the common traits shared by Musk, Jobs, Einstein, da Vinci, and Franklin. He emphasizes that they all possessed a relentless drive for excellence, a questioning nature, and the ability to think differently. These qualities allowed them to make significant contributions in their respective fields.

Regarding Steve Jobs, Isaacson shares an anecdote about a conversation he had with Jobs about his reputation for being mean and cruel. Jobs explained that if he had been nicer, Apple may not have achieved the success it did. Isaacson also notes that Musk shares a similar mindset, as both Jobs and Musk believe in being brutally honest and pushing their teams to achieve greatness.

Isaacson delves into the Twitter saga and Musk's involvement in it. He explains how Musk secretly bought shares of Twitter and eventually made an offer to acquire the company. Isaacson describes the rocky period leading up to the deal's closure and the challenges Musk faced in restructuring the company and building a new team.

The discussion then shifts to the topic of hiring and managing great teams. Isaacson highlights the importance of trustworthiness, excellence, and drive in the hiring process. He emphasizes that Musk has a talent for finding the right people and promoting them to positions of leadership.

Isaacson also explores the time management strategies of these individuals. He notes that Musk is a serial tasker, focusing intensely on one task at a time before moving on to the next. Isaacson admires Musk's ability to think long-term and his fierce sense of urgency in pursuing his goals.

The conversation touches on the question of whether history is shaped more by individuals or groups. Isaacson acknowledges that both individuals and groups play a role in shaping history, but he tends to focus more on the impact of exceptional individuals like Musk, Jobs, Einstein, and others.

Isaacson continues by discussing his process of writing biographies. He emphasizes the importance of storytelling and chronology in conveying the growth and development of individuals. He also highlights the value of observation and interviews in understanding the subjects of his biographies.

Isaacson continues by discussing his experience with Elon Musk, whom he spent around 30 hours observing and interviewing for his biography. He emphasizes the unique access he had to Musk, being just five feet away from him at all times. Isaacson highlights Musk's openness and lack of pretense, which made it easier for him to tell Musk's story objectively. He also mentions that Musk's family, former employees, and others associated with him were willing to share their insights and stories.

Isaacson shares his insights on interviewing and storytelling. He mentions that people generally love to talk, and his role as an interviewer is to listen and ask sincere questions. He emphasizes the importance of genuine curiosity and a lack of agenda when conducting interviews. Isaacson also discusses the power of silence during interviews, allowing the interviewee to open up and share more. He advises against leading questions and instead encourages open-ended inquiries to elicit meaningful responses.

Fridman asks Isaacson about the challenge of remaining objective while telling deeply human stories. Isaacson explains that his goal is to be honest and write for the open-minded reader, not for the subject of the biography. He believes that honesty and sincerity are akin to objectivity. Isaacson also mentions that he tries to focus on the story itself and let the readers form their own judgments. He acknowledges that his books may not provide great insights into personal relationships, but they do offer a glimpse into the lives of extraordinary individuals.

Isaacson emphasizes the importance of self-examination and self-awareness in living a meaningful life. He draws inspiration from the ancient philosophers, such as Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates, who emphasized the value of knowing oneself. Isaacson encourages individuals to question their motives and actions, to understand why they do what they do. He shares personal experiences of self-reflection and how it led him to realize his strengths and weaknesses, such as his preference for writing over managing complex organizations.

Isaacson reflects on the concept of legacy and how he approaches it. He believes that legacy is not about personal fame or recognition but about making a positive impact on one's community. He shares his commitment to giving back to his hometown of New Orleans, where he is involved in various initiatives, including education, youth empowerment, and city planning. Isaacson emphasizes the importance of being part of a community and helping future generations by sharing knowledge and resources.