Joe Rogan Experience #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between Joe Rogan and his guest Derek, known as More Plates More Dates. They delve into topics ranging from nootropics and supplementation to bodybuilding, athletic performance, hormone therapy, mixed martial arts (MMA), genetics, social media's impact on mental health, and cutting-edge medical procedures. The talk intertwines personal anecdotes, scientific insights, and cultural commentary across fitness, fighting, and wellness industries.

Nootropics and Gorilla Mind Drink

The discussion begins with Derek introducing his new drink version of Gorilla Mind's nootropic formula, a cognitive enhancer originally available only in capsules. The drink is formulated to be palatable and practical for daily use while delivering a blend of ingredients that support dopamine and acetylcholine neurotransmission. Key components include L-tyrosine for dopamine precursors, alpha-GPC (a bioavailable form of choline), uridine monophosphate (which enhances sensitivity to stimulants and may have neuroprotective qualities), caffeine at 200 mg for alertness, and saffron extract noted for its antidepressant and anti-anxiety effects without typical SSRI side effects.

Derek highlights the challenges of balancing efficacy with tolerability—especially with caffeine dosages—and mentions the rationale behind each ingredient's dose, drawing on his years of experience formulating supplements and careful literature review. He shares personal history with nootropics, recounting how early prototypes with ingredients like velvet bean extract (high in L-DOPA) caused overwhelming dopaminergic side effects and were abandoned for safety. The drink's liquid delivery allows flexible dosing, unlike pills, and comes sweetened primarily with sucralose, which Derek considers safe at recommended amounts.

Creatine and Performance Enhancers

The conversation shifts to creatine, where Derek discusses the evolving understanding of optimal doses for cognitive and physical performance benefits. He references a podcast with Chris Masterjohn concerning higher doses (above traditional 5 grams), demonstrating that creatine can offset detriments from sleep deprivation and enhance ATP production in the brain and muscles. Derek contrasts the supplement's now widespread acceptance with its stigmatized emergence in the 1990s when creatine was considered akin to steroids.

Derek also critiques over-the-counter bodybuilding supplements of past decades, describing them as mostly unregulated, mislabeled, and often heavily doped products with hazardous effects, including early liver damage and endocrine disruption. He recounts personal experiences and anecdotes about the notorious harshness and deceptive marketing tactics of that era.

Hormone Replacement and Steroid Transparency

The dialogue explores hormone replacement therapy (HRT), particularly testosterone and female hormone use. Derek reviews the mischaracterization of HRT risks, such as the women's health initiative study that linked horse-urine–derived estrogens to cancer risk—an effect not representative of modern bioidentical hormone therapy. He notes the FDA's recent easing of black box warnings and the benefits of appropriate hormone replacement for healthy aging, mood, bone density, and quality of life.

They contrast that with the dangers of unregulated or excessive testosterone dosing, especially in women and transgender individuals, which can cause irreversible masculinization and other side effects. Derek shares experiences of clients who suffered these consequences. He acknowledges ongoing debates around gender transition treatments, emphasizing the need for responsible, evidence-based care and cautioning against premature or extreme interventions in youth.

MMA Fighters, Legends, and Athletic Freaks

Joe and Derek reminisce on some of the most extraordinary MMA athletes, focusing on Yoel Romero's legendary athleticism—his bone density, tendon size, and explosive capacity, which set him apart as a formidable opponent well into his forties. They evaluate other fighters such as Khamzat Chimaev for his dominant wrestling style and ruthless aggression, and Gable Stevenson, an Olympic wrestling phenom transitioning into MMA with astounding speed and power for a heavyweight.

They discuss recent UFC happenings, including Usman's brother's positive drug test, the rise of new contenders, and the role genetics and training play in elite athleticism. Both emphasize how factors like natural power, technical skill, weight cutting effects, and hydration affect fighter durability and performance. They lament the health challenges fighters face due to drastic weight cuts and advocate for better regulations and hydration policies to preserve brain health and longevity.

Entertainment Industry and Bodybuilding Culture

The conversation takes a cultural turn toward the challenges of aging actors and bodybuilders altering their physiques dramatically for roles—like The Rock's weight fluctuations and Christian Bale's extreme physical transformations—even when such changes pose significant health risks. They remark on the evolution of bodybuilding's public image, from secretive steroid use to more open discussions of performance-enhancing drugs, but also the stigma and misinformation that storied past carries.

They lament the difficulty of creating compelling comedy and entertainment in the current culture climate, praising stand-up as a freer art form. The discussion includes the impact of social media and internet culture on mental well-being, celebrity transparency, and how athletes and entertainers now navigate public scrutiny and reputation management more cautiously than ever.

Social Media, Mental Health, and Productivity

A critical perspective on social media emerges as Derek and Joe share their personal strategies for minimizing its negative impact. Both limit their use, viewing it as a major drain on time and mental energy. They discuss the addictive quality of scrolling, the low-grade anxiety it perpetuates, and how likes and online validation can distort self-perception and impair mindfulness.

They prefer curated content delivered via trusted friends rather than random feeds and emphasize setting strict boundaries, such as turning phones off or limiting social media to dedicated devices. Late-night hours become preferred for undistracted deep work and creativity, though Joe admits to occasional anxiety about world events during these hours.

Cannabis and Creativity

Derek elaborates on the nuanced role of cannabis in creativity and comedic performance, citing it as an unparalleled aid for creative writing and joke development, especially through edibles. While warning that it can exacerbate paranoia and danger awareness, he confirms it as a favored tool among many comedians for unlocking novel thoughts and perspectives. They note that high tolerance individuals consume much higher doses, humorously referencing comedian Joey Diaz's excessive consumption.

Advanced Medical and Cosmetic Procedures

The episode touches on emerging medical techniques and biohacking, including regenerative therapies like stem cells for musculoskeletal injuries and the ongoing debate about sauna versus cold plunge effects on healing post-treatment. Derek shares his personal experience with a minor Achilles tear and the cautious rehabilitation process involving peptides like BPC-157.

They also discuss cosmetic uses of novel compounds, such as melanotan peptides for tanning and sexual enhancement, and the remarkable but risky leg-lengthening surgeries that some pursue for height increase. Derek shares updates on a prominent individual undergoing this painful and prolonged process, noting the physical and legal complications involved.

Genetics, Bodybuilding Limits, and Myostatin Inhibition

The limits of natural musculature and the influence of genetics on hypertrophic response and androgen receptor density come under scrutiny. Derek explains how despite pharmacological enhancement, some individuals are genetically capped in their ability to gain muscle mass or maintain cardiovascular and mental health under extreme doping.

The dialogue covers bodybuilding's unique culture of prioritizing appearance over function, emphasizing the physical trade-offs in flexibility, endurance, and health. Derek notes the dangers and health consequences from pushing the limits with heavy drugs and training. He also touches on future prospects in genetic engineering and myostatin inhibition that may revolutionize muscle preservation during fat loss but warns of varying efficacies and ethical boundaries.

MMA Training and Mobility

Derek praises fighters who prioritize mobility training alongside strength and conditioning, citing UFC athletes like Arman Tsarukyan who use flexibility-focused workouts to maintain performance and injury resilience. He describes the contrast between functional mobility and the often neglected aspect of deep range movement in combat sports, grappling, and other athletic disciplines.

They talk about the demands placed on fighters' bodies through years of training, injuries, and weight management cycles, underscoring the importance of recovery protocols and gradual progression to minimize lasting damage.

Fighter Physique and Weight Cutting Challenges

There is analysis of contrasting fighting physiques and how weight cutting affects performance and durability. Derek emphasizes that fighters who severely dehydrate before weigh-ins compromise their brain hydration and resilience, increasing knockout risk despite rehydrating muscle mass later.

Examples discussed include top fighters like Israel Adesanya, who is more durable at light heavyweight than middleweight due to less dehydration, and the challenges smaller fighters face adjusting to bigger weight classes. The ongoing debate over increasing weight divisions and hydration protocols is raised to protect athlete health and career longevity.

Ultra-Endurance and Discipline Stories

Joe and Derek share motivational examples of individuals transforming their lives through intense discipline, including a man who trained from being sedentary and overweight to completing Ironman competitions and ultramarathons over 100 days. They highlight the role of sheer willpower, incremental progress, and mental grit over relying solely on genetics or pharmacological aids.

They contrast this with rare extreme fasting episodes from medical histories to illustrate human body's adaptability, though cautioning such feats are not typical or advisable.

Genetics in Sports and Athletic Development

The episode explores exceptional genetic outliers in sports, from Lionel Messi receiving pharmaceutical growth hormone treatment as a youth to support normal stature, to Olympic wrestler Aleksandr Karelin's unique athleticism enhanced by Soviet-era doping programs. They examine the role of early-life interventions, environment, and state-supported athletic programs in creating dominant athletes.

Derek cautions against simplistic interpretations of genetics, noting the interplay of training, nutrition, and biohacking assets, as well as the limits of artificially enhancing physiology without consequences.

Mixed Martial Arts Industry Insights

They touch on current MMA dynamics, including potential matchups, fighter readiness, and the influence of personal life on athlete performance. The conversation includes recent UFC title scenes, emerging contenders, and the impact of social and psychological factors on careers.

The complex interactions between fighter skillsets, physical attributes, genetics, and preparation are discussed, with the acknowledgment of the sport's evolving nature and its increasing mainstream popularity.

Closing Remarks on Gorilla Mind and Medical Services

The episode wraps up with Derek promoting his Gorilla Mind nootropic line and related services offered at MeHealth.com, which includes expert diagnostics and preventative medicine consultations. Joe acknowledges the drink's efficacy and taste as he plans to purchase it, underscoring the mainstream acceptance of such supplements today.