Joe Rogan Experience #2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

Ben van Kerkwyk delves deeply into the mystery of the Great Lost Labyrinth near Hawara, Egypt, a vast underground complex chronicled by ancient historians like Herodotus, Pliny the Elder, and Diodorus Siculus. This labyrinth was described as larger and more magnificent than the pyramids themselves, featuring thousands of rooms, elaborate courtyards, and enormous pillars. Excavations dating back to Flinders Petrie in the early 1900s uncovered traces of the labyrinth's foundations, but the full extent remained obscured, primarily because much of it lies below the water table.

Ground-penetrating radar and sonic scanning expeditions since 2015, notably the Matahar expedition, have revealed massive walls and multi-level structures confirming the labyrinth's presence beneath the floodplain. However, these findings were initially suppressed by authorities, particularly Zahi Hawass, who allegedly threatened researchers with sanctions, fearing national security implications. The labyrinth is submerged approximately nine to ten meters underground and is partially flooded due to groundwater seepage, complicating excavation efforts.

The 40-Meter Metallic "Tic Tac" Object

One of the most sensational revelations discussed was the appearance of a large, approximately 40-meter-long metallic object with a "tic tac" shape detected in a central chamber of the labyrinth via advanced scanning technologies. This enigmatic artifact, made of an unknown metal unidentifiable by current standards, stands freestanding within a massive atrium that connects various levels in the labyrinth.

Ben and Joe entertain the possibility that this object might be of extraterrestrial origin, speculating on the implications if it were a recovered spacecraft or technology from a lost civilization or alien visitors. Conversations about the need to fund a proper excavation highlight the challenges posed by flooding, governmental bureaucracy, and the massive engineering required to safely remove the water and explore this artifact. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are jokingly mentioned as potential benefactors to help unravel this enigma.

Erosion Evidence on the Sphinx and Pyramids

The podcast explores geological evidence regarding erosion on the Sphinx and the pyramids, particularly focusing on the work of geologist Dr. Robert Schoch. The patterns of vertical erosion on the Sphinx's enclosure indicate water erosion caused by significant rainfall over thousands of years, which contradicts the traditional Egyptian timeline that dates the Sphinx to around 2500 BC. This challenges established archaeology by suggesting the monument is far older.

Studies of limestone erosion rates imply these features may be tens of thousands, if not over 100,000 years old, as typical environmental conditions in Egypt today could not have caused such damage quickly. This rain-based erosion hypothesis supports alternative chronologies placing early advanced civilizations in Egypt much earlier than classic dating conventions accept.

The Lost Waterways and Ancient Nile Branch

Ben describes how many of Egypt's valley temples and pyramid complexes were originally constructed along now-extinct branches of the Nile River, such as the Aramat branch. This branch was once wide and navigable, facilitating the transportation of massive granite blocks necessary for pyramid construction and temple building. However, due to climatic shifts and damming projects in modern times, these waterways dried or were diverted, complicating logistics and challenging traditional theories that credit the ancient Egyptians alone with these massive undertakings.

The podcasts highlight difficulties in moving enormous blocks by boat over limited seasonal flooding, casting doubt on accepted methods of transport and suggesting the possible existence of advanced technologies or unknown techniques in antiquity.

Legendary Halls of Records Beneath the Sphinx

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the speculation and historical accounts of tunnels and chambers beneath the Sphinx, including references to the so-called "Hall of Records." This idea, popularized by psychic Edgar Cayce in the 20th century, suggests the existence of an ancient repository of knowledge belonging to a predecessor civilization.

While initial ground-penetrating radar and sonic studies indicated chambers beneath the Sphinx, political gatekeeping and official denials, particularly by Zahi Hawass, have prevented comprehensive exploration. The resurfacing of rare footage from clandestine 1990s expeditions shows Zahi himself entering unexplored spaces inside the Sphinx body, hinting that discoveries may have been concealed or delayed for political or cultural reasons.

Extending the Human Timeline and Cataclysmic Events

Ben and Joe discuss scientific advances pushing back the timeline of human presence on Earth. Fossil and genetic evidence suggest Homo sapiens ancestors may have existed hundreds of thousands to nearly a million years ago, with multiple human species coexisting. This extension opens the possibility that advanced civilizations might have appeared and disappeared long before recorded history.

Correlating archaeological enigmas with the cataclysmic climate cycles—such as glacial periods, floods, and the Younger Dryas event—they propose that the destruction of prior civilizations could explain the gaps and mysteries in human history. These cataclysms may have reset civilization multiple times, erasing knowledge and misplacing artifacts now ascribed to "primitive" cultures.

Megalithic Architecture and Ancient Tech in Peru and Bolivia

The dialogue shifts toward South America with an emphasis on Peru and Bolivia's megalithic sites like Tiwanaku, Puma Punku, and Ollantaytambo. These locations feature gigantic monolithic stones precisely cut and assembled with minimal tool marks, exhibiting workmanship beyond what Incan-era technologies can explain. The differences between megalithic layers and later Incan masonry are stark, suggesting inheritance from a lost advanced civilization.

Ben discusses dating controversies, with some carbon-dating evidence pushed aside and alternative astronomical alignments suggesting these sites could be over 10,000 years old or more. The sites contain mysterious drilled holes, perfect joints, and resilient stonework that resist explanation by known historical periods.

Sacred Geometry and Cosmic Knowledge Encoded in Monuments

The conversation turns philosophical and mathematical, focusing on how ancient monuments encode advanced knowledge of the Earth and cosmos. The Great Pyramid is highlighted as a prime example, reflecting the Earth's dimensions at a scale ratio corresponding to significant numbers like 43,200 and 432—numbers recurring in mythology, ancient king lists, and cosmology.

Ben explains that the pyramid's dimensions precisely match geodetic data such as the polar radius and equatorial circumference of Earth. Further, celestial cycles like the precession of the equinoxes and orbital mechanics are incorporated architecturally, implying a very high level of astronomical knowledge well before the presumed capabilities of Dynastic Egyptians.

Ancient Global Connection and Shared Architectural Features

Discussing parallels worldwide, the podcast emphasizes the similarity of megalithic features across continents—Egypt, South America, Japan, India, and more. Intriguing common elements include precisely cut stones, "nubs" or protrusions on blocks, matching interlocking shapes, and advanced quarrying techniques not attributable to primitive tools.

They speculate on the possibility of a global civilization or interconnected cultures whose knowledge diffused worldwide. The recurring architectural motifs and sophisticated stonework styles challenge conventional isolated development theories.

The Concept of Lost Advanced Technologies Like the Shamir

The mythology of the "Shamir" is explored—a legendary substance or worm said to cut through stone, iron, and diamond without traditional tools, allegedly used by King Solomon to build the first temple peacefully, avoiding metal tools that might symbolize violence. Ancient lore describes the shamir as delivered by a bird and stored in lead, with mysterious properties that defy modern understanding.

Connections to real-world organisms like rock-eating worms discovered in the Philippines add intrigue. This ties into the broader theme that lost ancient civilizations might have possessed technologies now forgotten or unknown, contributing to their remarkable constructions and mysteries.

Gatekeeping and Challenges within Archaeological Establishments

The podcast critiques the academic resistance toward alternative archaeology and unconventional theories. Long-time figures like Zahi Hawass are portrayed as gatekeepers who suppress explorations that challenge orthodox chronologies or reveal inconvenient truths.

Ben praises younger, more open-minded archaeologists and scholars empowered by the internet and alternative media platforms for broadening the discourse. Yet, academic conservatism and the desire for control over historical narratives hinder progress. They lament the ruined potential for public excitement, tourism, and understanding due to this entrenched opposition.

The Cyclical Nature of Civilization and Future Prospects

Finally, the discussion turns toward human destiny and the cyclical pattern of civilizations rising, flourishing, and collapsing due to natural cataclysms. The idea that humanity faces recurring existential challenges every 10,000 to 12,000 years is proposed, with hope that present and future generations might break the cycle by embracing knowledge of the past.

Joe and Ben emphasize the importance of curiosity, exploration, and openness to radically rethink human history—not only to satisfy intellectual quests but to guide civilization toward stability, longevity, and perhaps reestablish lost wisdom in the modern era.