Joe Rogan Experience #2411 - Gavin de Becker

Project Gladio and Covert State Terrorism

De Becker opens with a chilling recount of Project Gladio, a clandestine CIA operation emerging from the aftermath of World War II. Instead of simply withdrawing soldiers, the U.S. intelligence apparatus left behind armed factions across Europe tasked ostensibly with resisting communism. However, their operations extended far darker, involving terroristic acts against supposed allies. Bombings in Italy and Germany killed innocents and shifted public opinion to support right-wing, authoritarian governments favorable to American interests.

What's most shocking is the brazen assassination of journalists who dared expose these activities, alongside the orchestration of political violence like the murder of Aldo Moro, Italy's former prime minister. Project Gladio's legacy persisted into the late 20th century, with a vast network of operatives fomenting instability under CIA direction. De Becker implores listeners to confront this uncomfortable truth: when oversight is absent, power corrupts absolutely. Is knowingly terrorizing civilian populations justifiable if it serves national security? History suggests the answer is disturbingly affirmative for those in the shadows.

The Pandemic Response

The conversation shifts into the recent COVID-19 pandemic, with de Becker touching on the unprecedented global lockdowns. Every Western nation, effectively at once, imposed draconian house arrest on its population—an extraordinary level of control no external enemy has ever managed. What was presented as a necessary public health measure, de Becker argues, functioned also as a powerful method of social control, creating divisions and suppressing communal joy to weaken societal bonds.

He discusses "Event 201," a 2019 tabletop exercise involving the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and CIA representatives, simulating pandemic response. Critically, the exercise emphasized control of information—not health treatments—underscoring how pandemic strategies were premeditated with an eye to govern populations more tightly. De Becker questions whether these measures emerged from genuine concern or opportunistic exploitation.

Project Mockingbird

No discussion of state power would be complete without exploring media manipulation. De Becker revisits Project Mockingbird, the mid-20th-century CIA program that infiltrated and influenced hundreds of American journalists. Though officially shut down by Senate investigations, its spirit arguably persists in the internationalized flow of propaganda today. The guest reveals how foreign powers use social media bots to manufacture viral narratives, skew public opinion, and blunt dissenting voices.

The line between truth and fabrication has blurred dangerously, especially since federal authorization to deploy propaganda domestically, initiated under the Obama administration. This legal greenlight means intelligence agencies can legally lie to their own citizens in the name of "national security." Is it no wonder the mainstream narrative often feels both coordinated and disconnected from lived experience? The media's complicity raises profound questions about democracy's survival in an age of mass disinformation.

Reevaluating Historic Health Crises

De Becker takes a deep dive into the dark history of the AIDS crisis, spotlighting Dr. Peter Duesberg's heretical but evidence-backed perspectives that challenged mainstream medical orthodoxy. Contrary to dominant narratives, Duesberg asserted that HIV was a symptom, not the cause, of immune system collapse, pointing to the toxic effects of antiretroviral drugs and rampant drug use in afflicted communities. The revelation that the standard treatment, AZT, might prolong suffering or accelerate death was met with fierce resistance, leaving the truth buried for decades.

The conversation highlights glaring inconsistencies: AIDS diagnostic criteria varied drastically between the U.S. and Africa; millions died as policies and profit motives overrode patient safety; and whistleblowers were systematically silenced. The parallels with the COVID vaccine controversy are evident. How many lives are sacrificed in the name of pharmaceutical profits and bureaucratic dogma? Could skepticism be not just warranted but essential for survival?

Vaccine Ingredients, and Safety

Breaking down modern childhood vaccines, de Becker paints a disturbing portrait of their contents, including gelatin from pig skin, human and animal DNA fragments, formaldehyde, and mercury compounds. These ingredients, often unspoken and obscured, raise hard questions about safety and transparency. The rationale provided by pharmaceutical companies for these components—like mercury as a preservative or monkey kidney tissue as a growth medium—rings hollow when weighed against their known toxicities.

He exposes the absence of robust, long-term safety studies, the financial conflicts of interest embedded in pediatric associations, and the pipeline from pharma to pediatricians that incentivizes unquestioning compliance. Importantly, not all vaccines are equal; their risks and benefits vary substantially, yet societal messaging tends to paint them with a monolithic brush. If trust in this system erodes further, what does that mean for public health initiatives? Should parents regain shared decision-making power rather than the blind faith of the past?

Historical Government Cover-Ups

To illustrate systemic patterns of denial and delay, de Becker recounts government and industry mishandling of health disasters like Agent Orange and Johnson & Johnson's talc baby powder. Despite early awareness of deadly dioxin contamination in Agent Orange, decades passed of obfuscation and "more studies needed" before acknowledgment surfaced. Similarly, Johnson & Johnson concealed cancer-causing asbestos in their baby powder for over fifty years, continuing its sale until recent rulings forced change.

These cases exemplify how official institutions manipulate scientific review processes to postpone compensation and justice, draining victims' lifespans of hope. This historical lens shows how similar strategies play out today under the guise of science and regulation. If compensation for veterans and cancer victims is delayed for decades, what fate awaits the victims of modern medical controversies?

The 'Inconvenient Studies' and Suppressed Truths

Throughout their dialogue, de Becker stresses the existence of suppressed or ignored studies demonstrating vaccine harm and health risks that run counter to official narratives. He spotlights the "Inconvenient Study" from Henry Ford Medical Center comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children, which was never officially released due to political pressure. The chilling candidness of the study authors, some fearful for their careers, reveals how scientific inquiry is censored to preserve a sanitized narrative.

Such suppression extends beyond vaccines to topics like myocarditis, miscarriage rates, and adverse reactions from COVID treatments. How can society make informed health decisions when research is hidden or invalidated without scrutiny?

Population Control and the Kissinger Report

One of the most sobering revelations comes from de Becker's discussion of the 1972 Kissinger Report, which openly framed U.S. foreign policy as aiming to reduce population growth in select developing nations. This state-sanctioned agenda utilized covert sterilizations and laced vaccines with fertility-suppressing compounds—actions confirmed in multiple countries including India and Peru.

The deeper implications reflect a cold calculus of global resource control disguised as humanitarian aid. De Becker connects this with contemporary conversations around vaccine-induced fertility effects and political endorsements of population reduction by influential figures. How much of public health is really about protection, and how much is an instrument of control? Can we reconcile ethics with geopolitics when it comes to reproduction?

Volodymyr Zelenskyy

To underscore the manipulation of public perception on a geopolitical scale, de Becker analyzes Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's transformation from comedian to political figurehead. His meteoric rise, aided by massive financial support from U.S. agencies and an oligarch-controlled media machine, reveals how modern "democracy" can be engineered like a television show.

Zelenskyy's seamless transition from scripted character to real-world leader exemplifies how image and narrative substitute for transparent governance in today's power theaters. What does it say about democracy if popular leaders are cultivated as media constructs? How much sway do foreign governments assert behind the scenes in shaping global leadership?

Pharma Misconduct

When it comes to pharmaceutical companies, de Becker delivers a damning critique of pervasive criminal practices ranging from illegal marketing to kickbacks and fraudulent testing. Companies like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, GlaxoSmithKline, and Eli Lilly have collectively paid billions in fines for offenses that directly harm public trust and health, yet continue profiting astronomically.

Despite documented deaths linked to drugs like Vioxx or Zyprexa, no corporate executives face prison, and regulatory bodies frequently grant immunity to vaccine manufacturers. De Becker questions why such entities remain trusted authorities when their track records reveal repeated, systemic harm. In an environment where fines are mere operational costs, is justice ever achievable? How can consumers navigate such a landscape?

Skepticism as a Civic Duty

Throughout the discussion, de Becker urges listeners to cultivate skepticism—not cynicism—as a necessary antidote to manipulation. From debunking accepted "facts" about vaccines, pandemics, and medical science to recognizing governmental deceit in war and media, he portrays skepticism as the only effective check on centralized power.

He warns that most people retreat into denial or "avoid the inconvenient truths" because questioning leads to social ostracism and cognitive dissonance. Yet the cost of complacency is surrendering collective agency. Is ignorance truly bliss, or are we better served by embracing uncomfortable realities to reclaim control?

Reflections on Empires, Human Nature, and Hope

Despite the stark revelations, de Becker closes the conversation reflecting on a deeper truth of human nature and history. Empires rise and decay; corruption is the enduring norm, not the exception. Yet alongside darkness, humans show resilience, heroism, and love. The pandemic, for all its horrors, revealed bonds of loyalty and courage among individuals willing to speak truth to power.

This duality calls us to accept complexity rather than retreat into simple binaries. What role can optimism play in confronting systemic dysfunction? Can we nurture new institutions rooted in transparency and respect, or are we doomed to repeat historical cycles? Ultimately, de Becker's message is a call to awaken, question, and act with clear eyes—not to surrender to despair.