Joe Rogan Experience #2301 - Ben Lamm

The Concept of De-Extinction

Lamm introduces the concept of de-extinction, explaining that Colossal Biosciences aims to bring back species that have been lost to extinction, such as the woolly mammoth and the Tasmanian tiger. He likens their work to a real-life Jurassic Park, emphasizing the scientific advancements that make this possible. The conversation highlights the technological innovations in synthetic biology that allow scientists to manipulate DNA and create viable embryos from ancient genetic material. Lamm discusses how the company is using cutting-edge techniques, including CRISPR gene editing, to achieve their goals.

The idea of de-extinction raises numerous questions about the ecological impact of reintroducing these species into their former habitats. Lamm explains that the reintroduction of species like the woolly mammoth could help restore ecosystems by promoting biodiversity and stabilizing environments that have been altered by human activity. He cites ecological modeling studies that suggest the presence of mammoths could have a net positive effect on the Arctic ecosystem, helping to combat climate change by maintaining grasslands and preventing permafrost melt.

The Role of Synthetic Biology

Synthetic biology is a central theme in the discussion, as Lamm elaborates on how it enables the engineering of life. He explains that synthetic biology combines biology and engineering principles to design and construct new biological parts, devices, and systems. This field has the potential to revolutionize medicine, agriculture, and environmental conservation. Lamm emphasizes that the advancements in synthetic biology are not just theoretical; they are being applied in real-world scenarios to address pressing global challenges.

Lamm also discusses the ethical considerations surrounding synthetic biology. As scientists gain the ability to manipulate life at a genetic level, questions arise about the implications of such power. He acknowledges the concerns of critics who fear that tampering with nature could lead to unforeseen consequences. However, Lamm argues that the potential benefits of synthetic biology, such as restoring endangered species and improving food security, far outweigh the risks if approached responsibly.

The Woolly Mammoth Project

One of the most ambitious projects at Colossal is the effort to bring back the woolly mammoth. Lamm shares insights into the scientific process involved in this endeavor, which includes extracting ancient DNA from well-preserved specimens found in permafrost. He explains that the closest living relative to the woolly mammoth is the Asian elephant, and the company is working on editing the elephant's genome to incorporate mammoth traits, such as thick fur and fat layers, to create a hybrid that can survive in cold environments.

The woolly mammoth project has garnered significant public interest, and Lamm notes that the company has received numerous inquiries about the potential for mammoth meat. He humorously recounts how people are curious about the taste of mammoth, highlighting the fascination with the idea of consuming an animal that has been extinct for thousands of years. Lamm emphasizes that the primary goal of the project is ecological restoration, not culinary exploration, but the curiosity surrounding the mammoth's return reflects a broader cultural interest in de-extinction.

The Tasmanian Tiger and Other Species

In addition to the woolly mammoth, Colossal is also focused on the Tasmanian tiger, or thylacine, which went extinct in the 20th century. Lamm explains that the thylacine was the only carnivorous marsupial in Tasmania and played a crucial role in the ecosystem. The company is working on using genetic material from preserved thylacine specimens to recreate the species. Lamm discusses the challenges of working with such limited genetic data and the importance of understanding the ecological role of the thylacine in its natural habitat.

The conversation also touches on other species that could potentially be brought back from extinction, such as the passenger pigeon and the woolly rhinoceros. Lamm emphasizes that the goal is not just to resurrect these animals for novelty but to restore balance to ecosystems that have been disrupted by human activity. He believes that successful de-extinction efforts could serve as a model for future conservation initiatives, demonstrating the potential for science to reverse some of the damage caused by humanity.

The Ethical Implications of De-Extinction

As the discussion progresses, Rogan and Lamm delve into the ethical implications of de-extinction. Lamm acknowledges that there are valid concerns about playing God and the potential consequences of reintroducing species into environments that have changed significantly since their extinction. He argues that it is essential to approach these projects with caution and to consider the ecological context in which these species will be reintroduced.

Lamm also highlights the importance of involving local communities and stakeholders in the decision-making process. He believes that successful de-extinction efforts require collaboration with indigenous peoples, conservationists, and scientists to ensure that the reintroduction of species aligns with the needs and values of the communities affected. This inclusive approach can help mitigate potential conflicts and foster a sense of shared responsibility for the environment.

The Science of Genetic Engineering

The podcast explores the science behind genetic engineering, particularly the use of CRISPR technology. Lamm explains how CRISPR allows scientists to make precise edits to DNA, enabling them to introduce specific traits into organisms. He discusses the potential applications of this technology beyond de-extinction, including improving crop resilience and developing new medical treatments.

Lamm emphasizes that while genetic engineering holds great promise, it also raises ethical questions about the extent to which humans should intervene in natural processes. He advocates for responsible use of the technology, stressing the need for rigorous testing and oversight to ensure that genetic modifications do not have unintended consequences. The conversation highlights the delicate balance between innovation and caution in the field of genetic engineering.

The Future of Conservation

Looking ahead, Lamm shares his vision for the future of conservation. He believes that advancements in synthetic biology and genetic engineering can play a crucial role in addressing the biodiversity crisis facing the planet. By restoring extinct species and enhancing the resilience of endangered populations, he envisions a future where ecosystems can thrive and recover from the impacts of climate change and habitat loss.

Lamm also discusses the importance of public engagement in conservation efforts. He believes that inspiring the next generation to care about the environment and understand the science behind conservation is essential for creating a sustainable future. Through educational initiatives and outreach programs, Colossal aims to foster a sense of stewardship among young people, encouraging them to take an active role in protecting the planet.

The Role of Technology in Society

The conversation shifts to the broader role of technology in society, with Lamm reflecting on the rapid pace of innovation and its implications for humanity. He acknowledges that while technology has the potential to solve many of the world's problems, it also presents challenges that must be addressed. Lamm emphasizes the need for ethical considerations and responsible governance as society navigates the complexities of emerging technologies.

Rogan and Lamm discuss the impact of social media and the 24-hour news cycle on public perception of science and technology. They explore how misinformation and sensationalism can distort public understanding of important issues, making it crucial for scientists and innovators to communicate their work effectively. Lamm believes that transparency and open dialogue are essential for building trust and fostering a collaborative approach to addressing global challenges.

The Importance of Biodiversity

Throughout the podcast, the importance of biodiversity is a recurring theme. Lamm explains that healthy ecosystems rely on a diverse array of species, each playing a unique role in maintaining balance. He argues that the loss of biodiversity poses significant risks to the planet, including increased vulnerability to disease, climate change, and habitat degradation.

Lamm emphasizes that conservation efforts must prioritize the protection of biodiversity, not just individual species. He believes that successful de-extinction projects can contribute to this goal by restoring lost species and enhancing ecosystem resilience. By working to bring back species like the woolly mammoth and the Tasmanian tiger, Colossal aims to demonstrate the potential for science to reverse some of the damage caused by human activity and promote a more sustainable future.

The Intersection of Science and Culture

As the conversation draws to a close, Rogan and Lamm reflect on the intersection of science and culture. Lamm notes that public interest in de-extinction and conservation is growing, driven in part by popular media and cultural narratives. He believes that storytelling plays a vital role in shaping public perception of science and inspiring action.

Rogan and Lamm discuss the power of narratives to engage people in important issues, highlighting the potential for films, books, and other forms of media to raise awareness about conservation and biodiversity. Lamm emphasizes that by framing scientific endeavors in relatable and compelling ways, society can foster a greater appreciation for the natural world and the importance of protecting it.