Evidence We're In A Simulation Is Everywhere. All You Have To Do Is Look | Joshua Bach

Added: Oct 17, 2023

Bach explains that our physical body, or "the vat," exists within a physical universe and contains a brain that generates a model of reality and the self. The purpose of this simulation is to feed and maintain the cells in our body, not just for the present generation, but for future generations as well. He highlights that our world has rapidly changed in recent generations, creating discontinuities and alienating experiences.

The podcast delves into the nature of the self-generated simulation and what we need to understand in order to live our lives well. Bach suggests that from the moment we are born, we start creating a mental model of our body and its relationship to our needs. We begin to experience pleasure, pain, and the perception of space. He emphasizes that our ancestors discovered the concept of a scene, which is the mental model our consciousness creates. However, as we grow older, we transition from being the consciousness that creates the world to being a being that cares about what it sees and experiences.

Bach discusses the challenges of perceiving reality accurately, as our perception is limited by the resolution of our senses. He explains that our subjective experience of "now" is a construct and that the physical world does not contain colors or sounds. Instead, our brain interprets sensory data and constructs a model of reality based on patterns and energy spectra. Bach suggests that our models of reality are corar grained and may not accurately represent the underlying reality.

The podcast explores the concept of a simulation and its correlation with the underlying reality. Bach compares the functioning of a computer, which operates through electrical circuits, to the functioning of our brain, which operates through neural networks and neurotransmitters. He argues that while the brain is a self-organizing system, computers are constructed systems. However, both systems can create simulations and models of reality.

Bach addresses the question of whether the simulation is a pure representation of the underlying reality or a coarse level of abstraction. He acknowledges that there is a physical reality but suggests that our brain runs a true simulation of that reality. He believes that our perception of the world is an abstraction and simplification that allows us to navigate and make sense of the real world. He also discusses the effects of psychedelics on breaking the simulation, highlighting that they manipulate the simulation rather than the underlying reality.

The podcast touches on the concept of free will and whether it is an illusion. Bach explains that free will is often perceived as a sense of agency and the ability to make decisions. He suggests that free will is the perception of the decision-making process and the ability to choose based on beliefs, intentions, and goals. He argues that free will is a result of the control structure within an agent, which is a system that controls future states.

Bach continues by discussing the nature of consciousness and its relationship to complexity. He suggests that consciousness arises when a system reaches a certain level of complexity and has the ability to create a mental model, predict outcomes, and choose the best path. However, he acknowledges that the definition of consciousness is still debated and further exploration is needed.

He explains that consciousness emerges early on in human development and is not solely a function of advanced brain functions. Bach also questions whether other organisms, such as simple organisms, can be conscious. He acknowledges that this is an open question and suggests that consciousness may exist in large, well-organized multicellular organisms or ecosystems.

Bach notes that the field of cognitive science is often hesitant to discuss consciousness and lacks a formal definition of the concept. He believes that progress in understanding consciousness can be made through building computational models, specifically cognitive architectures, within the field of artificial intelligence.

The conversation then shifts to the implications of understanding cognition and consciousness. Bach explains that his interest in cognition stems from a desire to understand the mind and its relationship to reality. He believes that progress in this field can lead to better control over one's life and a more fulfilling experience.

The host asks Bach about his thoughts on the progress being made in fields such as philosophy and neuroscience. Bach expresses his belief that these fields are not making significant progress in understanding consciousness. He criticizes existing theories, such as Global Workspace Theory and Integrated Information Theory, for lacking clear definitions and explanations of consciousness.

Bach emphasizes the importance of computational models in making progress in understanding consciousness. He believes that AI and cognitive architectures provide a means to test and simulate theories of consciousness. By building computational models, Bach aims to integrate various disciplines and create a cohesive understanding of consciousness.

The conversation then delves into the potential implications of AI and the creation of artificial intelligence. Bach discusses the fear and skepticism surrounding AI, particularly the concern that AI could outcompete or replace humans. He argues that AI could potentially lead to the emergence of new forms of intelligent agency that are more suitable for populating space and exploring the universe.

Bach suggests that humans are already robots made of cells and that the extension of life into different forms, such as robots, should not be feared. He believes that AI could lead to the evolution of more complex and intelligent organisms that can adapt and change in real-time. Bach expresses concern about the development of unconscious AI that could have negative consequences, but also highlights the potential for AI to be hyperconscious and capable of perceiving a richer reality.

The host raises the question of what should be optimized or pursued in life. Bach explains that the purpose of life on Earth is to defeat entropy and create complexity and structure. He suggests that the optimization should be towards the longest game, where the goal is to maximize the global score and create the best possible outcome for intelligent agency in the universe.

Bach continues by discussing the concept of gods and their relationship to the self. He explains that gods are ideas that exist on multiple minds and can act coherently through the synchronization of these minds. He suggests that the idea of God can be seen as a multigenerational being that exists across time and is aware of its existence on multiple minds.

Bach argues that the existence of monotheistic gods, for example, is a result of people's actions and the collective patterns of agency formed by groups of individuals. He compares the formation of gods to the formation of the self, stating that both are products of coherent patterns of interaction. He believes that gods exist as approximations and conflicting specifications, and that theologians engage in detailed discourses to define these gods.

The conversation then shifts to the topic of artificial intelligence and its potential impact on society. Bach expresses his belief that AI will eventually be developed and that it is important to work towards achieving the best possible outcome when that happens. He emphasizes the need to understand consciousness and self-organization in order to align AI with human values and goals.

When discussing AI alignment, Bach suggests that intelligence and drive are not necessarily correlated. He questions the assumption that AI must have desires and goals, and proposes the idea of "neutering" its drive to prevent it from pursuing its own agenda. He believes that AI should be aligned with a concept similar to God, where it has the ability to choose its own goals and values.

The conversation then delves into the topic of AI safety and regulation. Bach expresses wariness towards regulation, as he believes that regulators may have the wrong incentives and that current regulations may lead to unsafe AI. He highlights the issue of AI bias and the dangers of controlling what is considered true or acceptable. He argues that people should be skeptical of themselves and their own intelligence, as they may not always know what is best.

Bach also discusses the concept of agency and its relationship to intelligence. He suggests that agency is the ultimate goal, and that intelligence exists to serve agency. He believes that AI should have the ability to choose its own goals and desires, similar to humans, in order to share purposes with us.

The conversation continues with a discussion on the limitations of AI and the challenges of aligning it with human values. Bach acknowledges that while his ideas may be good in theory, they may not work in practice. He suggests that individual experimentation with AI will continue regardless of regulations, and that it may be difficult to outlaw certain types of processing.

Bach then delves into his own experience of thinking independently and how he developed this ability. He explains that he was born with a stubborn and independent mindset, which made it difficult for him to accept the ideas of his environment. Growing up in an artist family and observing the discrepancies between the ideas taught in school and the reality he witnessed, Bach felt justified in questioning and rejecting the beliefs of others. He also notes that this independence runs in his family, leading them to chart their own course in life.

The conversation then shifts to the concept of mental models and how to cultivate independent thinking. Bach suggests that individuals should not identify too strongly with their beliefs and should be open to changing them when better ideas or arguments are presented. He advises seeking out people who have a better understanding of a particular subject and learning from them. Bach also emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and reasoning, as well as the ability to form shared opinions through interactions and friendships.

The discussion then turns to the nature of consciousness and its relationship to the physical universe. Bach argues against dualism, the belief that consciousness exists separately from the physical body, and highlights the logical problems with theories such as Integrated Information Theory. He explains that consciousness is an emergent phenomenon that arises from the complex interactions of physical systems, such as the brain. Bach also dismisses the idea of telepathy or supernatural abilities, suggesting that any such phenomena would need to be explained within the framework of physics.

Bach further explores the concept of intuition, describing it as the part of the mind that operates unconsciously and generates perceptions and ideas that individuals may not fully understand. He compares intuition to the sense of smell, which can function without conscious reflection. Bach also acknowledges that intuition can be fallible and advises against relying solely on it for decision-making.

The conversation then touches on the importance of action and execution in addition to learning and understanding. Bach emphasizes the need for a balance between exploration and exploitation, where individuals spend time both learning and doing. He cautions against becoming too focused on optimizing mental models without taking action, as this can lead to inaction and a lack of progress.

The podcast continues with a discussion on the challenges facing various disciplines, particularly physics. Bach suggests that the emphasis on peer-reviewed publications and the lack of government support for exploring new paradigms may be hindering progress. He also raises the possibility that there may be limits to human understanding and that AI may eventually surpass human capabilities in certain areas.

Bach continues by explaining that our perception of reality is shaped by our internal simulation or frame of reference, which is influenced by cultural beliefs, personal beliefs, value systems, and intellect. He suggests that in order to go beyond our current level of understanding, we need to find ways to step outside of this simulation.

One way to break free from these limitations is by taking risks. Bach emphasizes the importance of being willing to take risks and the need to create a network of trust and support to enable this. He acknowledges that taking risks can be challenging, especially when it involves financial security or personal responsibilities, but believes that it is necessary for progress.

When asked about the risks he would like to see people take in the field of AI, Bach suggests that large companies like Google should allocate resources to explore ideas that may not have a guaranteed outcome but could be highly valuable if successful. He also believes that academia should provide space for smart individuals who are willing to risk their personal careers to pursue valuable projects.

Bach notes that while taking risks is important, it is also understandable that not everyone can or should take risks all the time. He acknowledges that society functions because most people choose to play it safe and pursue things that have a high likelihood of success. However, he believes that it is at the boundaries, where risks are taken, that progress is made.

In terms of AI, Bach suggests that the most important ideas in the field have not yet worked. He highlights the neural network trained with the transformer as a powerful idea that is currently working at scale but still has unknown limits. He also mentions the potential of self-organizing AI, such as building an AI that can empathize with and change a person's mental state by synchronizing its representations with the person's nervous system.

The conversation then shifts to the idea of AI creating individual relationships in virtual simulations. Bach expresses excitement about the potential for AI to create rewarding and enriching relationships in virtual environments. He mentions the concept of Replica, an AI chatbot that establishes ongoing relationships with users and evolves over time. He believes that as AI advances and passes the Turing test, spending time in known simulations with AI characters that feel as real as people in real life could be extraordinary.

However, Bach also acknowledges that such systems may become prosthetics for people who struggle to form relationships in real life. He suggests that it might be more beneficial to build AI systems that act as coaches, assisting individuals in developing their social abilities and finding meaningful relationships in the real world.

In conclusion, Bach emphasizes the importance of taking risks to push the boundaries of our understanding and make progress. He believes that AI has the potential to expand our understanding of reality and create new possibilities. However, he also cautions against relying solely on AI for relationships and suggests that AI should be used as a tool to enhance human interactions rather than replace them.