Added: Dec 18, 2023
In this episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, Dr. Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Robert Lustig, an endocrinologist and professor of Pediatric Endocrinology at the University of California San Francisco. The discussion focuses on the idea of whether a calorie is indeed a calorie and how different types of nutrients impact our cellular functioning, organ functioning, and overall health.
Is a Calorie Truly a Calorie?
Dr. Lustig challenges the commonly held belief that a calorie is a calorie, meaning that weight gain or loss is solely determined by the number of calories consumed versus the calories burned. He provides examples to illustrate that a calorie eaten is not necessarily a calorie eaten, as the body processes different types of nutrients in different ways. For instance, when consuming almonds, the fiber in the almonds prevents the absorption of some of the calories, leading to only a portion of the calories being utilized by the body. Similarly, when consuming protein, the body may use some of the amino acids for muscle growth, but the excess amino acids are deaminated and converted into organic acids, requiring more energy for processing. This challenges the notion that all calories are equal in terms of their impact on the body's energy balance.
Impact of Fructose and Glucose
Dr. Lustig also delves into the impact of fructose and glucose on the body. While glucose is essential for cellular energy production and is a vital component of the diet, fructose is described as vestigial, meaning it is not required for survival. Fructose inhibits three enzymes necessary for normal mitochondrial function, leading to reduced mitochondrial efficiency. This inhibition can have long-term effects on metabolic health and contribute to chronic diseases such as obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular issues. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the differences between various nutrients and their effects on the body's metabolic processes.
Role of Insulin and Blood Glucose
The conversation also addresses the role of insulin in response to glucose consumption. Dr. Lustig explains that insulin is released in response to a rise in blood glucose levels, and its primary function is to store excess glucose as fat for future energy use. This process can lead to endothelial dysfunction and changes in blood pressure, contributing to the development of coronary artery disease and other health issues. The discussion emphasizes the negative impact of excessive insulin release and its role in energy storage, challenging the common perception of insulin as a solely beneficial hormone for lowering blood glucose levels.
The Influence of the Food Industry
Dr. Lustig highlights the influence of the food industry in promoting the idea that all calories are equal and that sugar is just another form of energy. He emphasizes that the food industry has perpetuated this narrative to absolve itself of responsibility for the rise in obesity and chronic diseases. By promoting the idea that a calorie is a calorie, the food industry has downplayed the detrimental effects of certain nutrients, such as fructose, and has contributed to the widespread consumption of ultra-processed foods high in sugar. This discussion sheds light on the importance of critically evaluating nutritional information and understanding the impact of dietary choices on overall health.
Insulin and Glucose Utilization
Dr. Lustig explains that when a person is active, insulin helps in utilizing glucose for energy. Muscles are insulin independent and can take up glucose for immediate fuel and glycogen storage. However, if a person is not active, excess glucose can lead to a spike in insulin, which can result in the storage of glucose as fat.
Oxygen and Mitochondrial Function:
The discussion shifts to the role of oxygen in determining whether a cell should burn or grow. Dr. Lustig explains that oxygen is necessary for mitochondria to burn, and in the absence of oxygen, cells tend to grow. He also highlights the Warburg effect, which explains why cancer cells don't need oxygen to grow.
Glucose and Fructose Metabolism:
The conversation delves into the metabolism of glucose and fructose. Dr. Lustig explains that fructose is metabolized in the intestine, leading to the production of triglycerides and causing leaky gut, which can result in systemic inflammation. He emphasizes the negative impact of fructose on mitochondrial function and endothelial nitric oxide synthase.
Food Industry and Sugar:
Dr. Lustig discusses the food industry's use of sugar, particularly high fructose corn syrup, to make food more addictive and increase consumption. He explains that sugar is added to food to enhance its shelf life and make it more appealing to consumers. He also highlights the economic and metabolic implications of using high fructose corn syrup in processed foods.
Public Health Response:
The conversation continues with a discussion on personal responsibility and the need for a societal response to address public health issues. Dr. Lustig emphasizes that personal responsibility alone is not sufficient to address the impact of excessive sugar consumption and calls for a public health response to tackle the widespread health implications of added sugars in food.
Knowledge and Access to Healthier Alternatives
Dr. Lustig highlights the importance of knowledge in making informed choices about nutrition and health. He points out that the public is often kept from essential knowledge about food processing, fructose, and calories. He stresses the need to educate people about the science of nutrition and metabolic health to empower them to make better choices.
Access to healthier alternatives is another crucial factor in exercising personal responsibility. Dr. Lustig acknowledges that people living in food deserts or food swamps may not have access to nutritious options. He also discusses the challenges of affordability, as healthier alternatives may be more expensive or less convenient to obtain.
Externalities and the Impact of Choices
Dr. Lustig emphasizes the importance of considering externalities when making choices. He explains that personal choices should not harm others, and he provides examples such as tobacco smoke, alcohol, and food-related health costs that can affect others.
Food Processing and Metabolic Health
Dr. Lustig introduces the concept of food processing and its impact on metabolic health. He explains that food science, nutrition, and metabolic health are interconnected, and chronic diseases such as diabetes, hypertension, and obesity are linked to mitochondrial dysfunction.
The Nova System and Food Categorization
Dr. Lustig introduces the Nova System, a tool for categorizing food based on its metabolic effect rather than its nutrient content. He explains that the Nova System can help individuals identify and choose foods that contribute to growth and metabolic health. He also emphasizes the importance of consuming foods that are categorized as Nova class 1 through 3, which make up only 20% of the grocery store.
Omega-3s and Vitamin D
Dr. Lustig discusses the importance of Omega-3 fatty acids and their sources, such as marine life and fish oil. He also explains the significance of vitamin D and its role as a pre-pro hormone that requires proper metabolism to be effective. He emphasizes the need to address inflammation and oxidative stress to optimize the benefits of vitamin D.
Cold Exposure and Mitochondrial Biogenesis
Dr. Lustig highlights the potential benefits of deliberate cold exposure and its impact on mitochondrial biogenesis. He explains that cold exposure can stimulate physiological changes and increase catecholamines, which may have long-term effects on metabolism.
Challenges in Addressing Food Industry Influence
Dr. Lustig addresses the challenges of addressing the influence of the food industry on government policies. He discusses the role of organizations like the American Legislative Exchange Council in shaping legislation and promoting the interests of big food, big pharma, and other industries. He emphasizes the need for transparency and accountability in addressing the impact of industry influence on public health.
The Role of Different Types of Fat
Dr. Lustig explains that there are three different fat depots in the body, each with its own metabolic implications. Subcutaneous fat, found under the skin, is relatively metabolically neutral and requires a significant amount of weight gain before it becomes a health concern. Visceral fat, located around the abdominal region, is more metabolically active and can lead to metabolic dysfunction with as little as five pounds of weight gain. Liver fat, which can result from excessive alcohol or sugar consumption, is the most concerning as it can lead to immediate metabolic dysfunction.
Artificial Sweeteners and Insulin Response
Dr. Lustig discusses the impact of artificial sweeteners on insulin response and cravings. He explains that artificial sweeteners can still generate an insulin response, leading to increased hunger and cravings for more food. This can result in weight gain, even if the overall caloric intake is controlled. He also highlights the role of chronic overstimulation of neurons, leading to tolerance and dependence, similar to the effects of addictive substances.
The Impact of Ultra-Processed Foods
The podcast delves into the addictive nature of ultra-processed foods, which are often laden with artificial sweeteners, emulsifiers, and other additives. These foods can lead to chronic overstimulation of neurons, contributing to food addiction and metabolic dysfunction. Dr. Lustig emphasizes the need to protect the liver, feed the gut, and support the brain when considering the health implications of different foods.
The Role of GLP-1 Agonists
Dr. Lustig discusses the use of GLP-1 agonists, such as semaglutide, in weight management. These medications primarily act on the gut, reducing the rate of gastric emptying and increasing satiety. While they have been shown to be effective in inducing weight loss, there are concerns about the impact on skeletal muscle tissue. Additionally, the cost of these medications can be prohibitive for many individuals.
The Impact of Stress and Lifestyle
The podcast also touches on the impact of stress and lifestyle on metabolic health. Dr. Lustig emphasizes the need to address stress and its effects on visceral fat accumulation, as well as the importance of dietary changes to support overall metabolic health. He also discusses the role of intermittent fasting in reducing liver fat and improving metabolic function.
The Role of Fiber
Fiber plays a crucial role in metabolic health, and Dr. Lustig emphasizes the importance of consuming both soluble and insoluble fiber. He explains that fiber can help regulate glucose and fructose absorption, reduce the insulin response, and protect the liver. He also introduces a proprietary fiber called Biolumin, which acts as a microcellulose sponge and can significantly impact glucose and fructose absorption.
The Impact of Food Processing
Ultra-processed foods often contain added sugars and a variety of other ingredients that can have negative effects on health. Dr. Lustig explains that the food industry uses various names for sugar to hide its presence in processed foods. He encourages individuals to look for added sugars on nutrition labels and avoid products with more than four grams of added sugars per serving.
The Role of Exercise and Lifestyle
In addition to dietary factors, Dr. Lustig emphasizes the importance of exercise and lifestyle choices in maintaining metabolic health. He recommends regular physical activity, such as walking, and highlights the benefits of resistance training for maintaining muscle mass. He also discusses the impact of food combinations and intermittent fasting on metabolic health.
Advocacy for Health and Policy Change
Dr. Lustig advocates for policy changes to promote healthier food choices, particularly in public institutions such as hospitals and schools. He encourages individuals to support initiatives that promote real food and advocate for the removal of junk food from public venues. He also emphasizes the importance of educating the public about nutrition and metabolic health.
The Role of Supplements
While supplements are not necessary for everyone, Dr. Lustig acknowledges that some individuals may benefit from certain supplements to support their health. He recommends exploring the use of supplements for improving sleep, hormone support, and cognitive function.
The Importance of Science Communication
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Lustig and the host, Dr. Huberman, emphasize the importance of science communication and the need for individuals to have access to accurate and understandable information about nutrition and metabolic health. They discuss the role of social media, newsletters, and podcasts in disseminating scientific knowledge to the public.
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